When to take slowplaying risks?

[sprmario]

I was in the $30+3 late last night and we were down to 120 or so people w/ the top 100 making money. I've got about T12,000 and the average stack is about 8k. I am sure I can coast into money which is nice because my bankroll isn't huge ($780 only).

I get dealt K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif in MP w/ the blinds at 250/500. everyone folds to me and I raise to 1500 and I get 1 caller w/ a T5,000 stack immediately to my left and everyone else folds. 3,750 in the pot and the flop comes K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

The question I have is what do you do at this point? Do you risk slow playing two pair and possibly allowing a flush draw to get a free card? Do you push? Do you make a medium bet? Go for a check raise to get more chips and risk the free card?

I had a couple of hands like this that were similar (One was hitting a set of 8s but w/ a 2 flush and a 9 also on the board). I hit my hand well but there were potential flush draws and/or straight draws out there that led me to fast play and not risk a draw playing against me.

[golgo13sf]

I don't think you're going to shake too many people who have 4 to a flush with anything less than a monster raise, so you might as well bet. Bet enough to make it 2/3-1 pot odds against a just under 5-1 shot. If they hit, there's not much you can do, you made it wrong for them to call and they caught, thats poker. If the turn is a blank, then hammer them.

[eastbay]

With one opponent in the hand on a smallish stack, I go for the check-raise here if he's shown any tendency to aggression at all.

eastbay

[sprmario]

Thanks, I thought that's what I should have done. It's one of a few hands that I think I might have left something on the table. I was new to the table though (1 orbit) and I wasn't sure what he'd do. I would assume that against 2 or 3 opponents your chances of facing a flush draw are much higher and you probably should bet out agressively?

[SossMan]

I would bet T3000 and push on any turn card if called.

[sprmario]

Remember the pot is 3,750 and his stack remaining is around 3,500. Any bet near 3,000 is basically forcing him all in.

I'm curious if psychologically there is any difference between putting up a 2k bet, 3k bet, pot sized bet or just pushing all in when they have basically the same net effect of the other person.

[golgo13sf]

as I've read in countless books, the aggressive player has way the best of it, and I've found it to be true. If it was only 1 on 1, slow playing might have been correct, but with another player there, just go out and bet, if they call you can start putting them on hands (namely AK or 2 spades), if they fold, you just took down the pot, if they call the chances are you're still way ahead.

[golgo13sf]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember the pot is 3,750 and his stack remaining is around 3,500. Any bet near 3,000 is basically forcing him all in.

I'm curious if psychologically there is any difference between putting up a 2k bet, 3k bet, pot sized bet or just pushing all in when they have basically the same net effect of the other person.

[/ QUOTE ]

betting way over what your opponent has turns your cards into 72o. He's not going to call it without a great hand. So if you want him out of the hand, thats what you want to do. If you want to get him in the pot you want your opponent to make the push, so bet enough that if he just calls and loses he's crippled, so he must raise all in (T2500 should do it) or fold.

[MLG]

A good opponent will understand that calling a small bet pot commits him, and in my opinion will interpret the bets the same way. However, weaker opponents may call a small bet and then fold even though they are clearly wrong to do so. Weaker opponents also many times do not understand that they cannot raise enough to make you fold and thus will "bluff" your smaller bet thinking it means weakness by going all-in even though you cannot fold. The trick is figuring out how good your opponent is, and deciding accordingly.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

You underestimate the reverse psychology of the bet that is exactly what he has left.

I've done that to a short stack with 2pair+ many times when I act before them and a lot more then not, they call with middle to bottom pairs because I was "trying to push them out of the pot." This works even better when its a massive overbet of the pot and you have them covered.

MarkV.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

He called 1/3 of his stack off. If he has just a flush draw he's very bad and very lucky.

Since this is Heads up, bet weakly into this pot or go for the check-raise to get the most out of him, but you CANT fold this even if a spade comes on the turn.

I personally would bet exactly what he has left to make it look like I was trying to bully him with Ace high or very weak hand and hope he got enough of this flop to call.

MarkV.

[fnurt]

To expand on this, this flop puts a lot of draws out there, flushes, straights, plus someone might make a better 2 pair. Even if you put your opponent on a drawing hand, you don't know which draw he has, so you can't let yourself get scared by a card that potentially completes a draw. Your hand is too good for that. You have to keep playing, and if he has it, he has it.

[gergery]

Two pair against one opponent that I have covered is a good enough hand that I’m going to the river on this flop.

You are very likely ahead, the only question is how to get the most money in the pot.

I would probably bet $T1400 into the $3000 pot. That does three things: 1) lets him think he might be able to push me out of the pot by going all-in with QQ, Ace high or 3rd pair, 2) lets him call with a flush or straight draw at bad odds ($ at 3:1 vs. chance to hit of 4:1),
Betting the exact amount to put him all in is fine for the reverse psychology element, but you can accomplish the same thing and entice even more hands in with a partial pot bet.
Of course I push on turn.

And on the flush, random chances of one player getting two suited cards is 25%, chances that its spades is ~6%. Since he called we can assume real likelihood is higher, but you are still talking about pretty big odds against a flush draw. It’s much more likely he had a middle pocket pair, or high Ace.

--Greg

[mack23]

You are in the driver's seat with such a large chip advantage over the opponent. He is likely to be desperate to win this pot and unlikely to have a flush draw so I would check all the way here and hope he takes a shot at it. Heck even if his bet is not a bluff it likely means he has AK and he is still nearly dead.

-Mack

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember the pot is 3,750 and his stack remaining is around 3,500. Any bet near 3,000 is basically forcing him all in.

I'm curious if psychologically there is any difference between putting up a 2k bet, 3k bet, pot sized bet or just pushing all in when they have basically the same net effect of the other person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh...just realized he has 3.5k left, not 5k....in that case, I would make about a T2000 bet and hope he pushes.

[Beavis68]

I would say: when to take risks slow playing is when there are no obvious draws on the board. Giving an opponent free draws in never good.

If you wanted to coast into the money, is raising with KJ from middle position smart?