Stupid play or reasonable risk (w/ AA)

[sprmario]

It's a $20+2 SnG and we are down to 5. I've played 1 hand the entire event so far. Two big stacks at T3,500 and T2,500, and I'm sandwiched between them. I'm at T1,000 and 2 guys right around 500 each. I get dealt AA in the BB and the blinds are at 100/200.

It gets folded around to the Big Stack in the SB who calls and I min raise to 400 and he calls. Flop is 57Q rainbow.

He checks to me. I bet 200 and he raises to 400 and I push in which he calls. Shows Q3o, Turn comes a 3 and I lose.

The question I have is should I have pushed earlier and probably gotten him to fold? Was it a reasonable risk to try and suck him in? I probably could have blinded into 3rd but I'd have had a slim chance to do better and you can't really expect a better chance at doubling up at this point in the tournament.

[Jason Strasser]

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It's a $20+2 SnG and we are down to 5. I've played 1 hand the entire event so far.

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As I'm writing this, I haven't read beyond this. I assume by the title of this post and this opening that you expect 20+2 players to be aware of your table image. Never assume this.

Now I've read your post. I'm really never in this spot because I just push preflop. Anything less, with my image, is a telegraph. But then again, I usually push more than you, judging by your table image.

The way you played it was OK, but you can not be upset at all when this happens. It was a risk you (apparently) were willing to take.

Push with more hands, so you can push with AA.

[eastbay]

It's fine. He got lucky.

eastbay

[Spill]

I think that is a personal preference risk depending on how well you know your table.

[sprmario]

I'm definately not upset about it. I new I was trying to get into a showdown to double up and I saw the flop was favorable and figured that this was my best opportunity to double and take a shot at at 2nd or 1st. I know that preflop vs his had i'm a big favorite and even after he hit his flop i was still a big favorite and that he just got one of his outs... no biggie.

One of the problems i'm seeing w/ my game is too often coasting into a low money position and other times taking uneccessary risks near the bubble and failing to money at all when I'm close. I think I want to be taking reasonable risks and being aggressive enough to build stacks over time.

I agree I think I'm slightly too tight preflop and then have difficulty letting go of premium preflop hands that miss their flop totally.

[Colby818]

This hand is why the general suggestion is not to slowplay monsters. I will tell you, when you min.raise, I figure there's a very good chance you've got a monster.

If I'm the big stack, I would definitely check and call in that situation with both 5's and 7's. This is evidenced by the fact that he checked his Q to you when it hit.

When he did check, he had you in an interesting little trap. You still had no idea what hand he was on, and where your hand stood against it. You obviously had an overpair, but when you look at that board, you know that the best possible hands are trips and two pairs(limper w/ Q7s not at all unusual with a big stack).

it's interesting that as things worked out, you had the best hand when you put your money in, but again my point is that you no longer know that your AA is the better hand.

IMO, this is a no-brainer push pre-flop.

[sprmario]

IMO, I can safely rule out a set. If he had a pocket pair of any kind and everyone folded to him in the SB I would have to think he is going to raise any pocket pair. The only way my overpair isn't the best hand is if he hit two pair and can you ever really be scared of that on this sort of flop? I would think that a large portion of the time you still have the best hand postflop and don't mind a call.

I believe he checked hoping I'd bet at all and force me all in. given his stack size, what was left in front of me and the pot size, I'm sure he was willing to bet remaing 600 chips on his top pair.

[slogger]

which is why you could have just pushed on the flop. It wouldn't have changed anything, but you don't have enough chips left to be getting cute. He's either going to call your remaining 800 or he's going to fold to any bet.

Similarly, pre-flop, when he limps, you should be pushing for three reasons: (1) you're likely to get the call you want because you're the short stack - most players assume you're desperate (2) you're unlikely to get more than one call, which is good at this stage because it's more important that you win the hand than win the most possible chips, and (3), based on the same concept, you would not mind if they all fold because that gets you up to a more playable stack (1500 or so), which, if they respect your larger raises (as you seem to think they would), will allow you to steal your way back to even in no time at all.

[sprmario]

I was in the BB... my blind was 200 leaving me 800. I already knew i was only up against the small blind who had merely called the 1/2 bet to see the flop. If I push, he folds and I am at T1,200 and my next blind out of the small blind is 150.

My stack is small enough that I am going to have to win some sort of coinflip most likely later on, when better to see a showdown than w/ AA? Given that I wanted him to call my bets which is why I made them small.

The alternative was to just take the blinds, and hope to outlast the 2 smaller stacks at 500 each and sneak into 3rd w/ a really small shot at anything else.

[fnurt]

I have no problem with playing this hand to double up, but there was no need to be cute on the flop. Just put your chips in.

[sprmario]

Hehe, fair enough.

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I have no problem with playing this hand to double up, but there was no need to be cute on the flop. Just put your chips in.

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[ddubois]

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I have no problem with playing this hand to double up, but there was no need to be cute on the flop. Just put your chips in.

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Would leading out with a push make his opponent more likely to fold, compared to the min bet/min raise/push line? (I would think it would.) According to the Fundamental Theorm of Poker, don't we want our opponent to incorrectly call here?

On the other hand, the bet/raise/push line gives our opponent better odds on his allin call. We do want him to call, but we want him to have the worst odds possible we he does call allin, so there are conflicting factors at play here.

[ddubois]

It seems to be it's a risk versus reward scenario. I had a situation this weeknd where it was heads up and the SB tried to steal my BB with a min raise. I had AA. Now, I could push here, but he had shown the abiltiy to fold (probably a little too frequently), so instead of pushing, I min-raised him back. He min-raised me back! Of course, I was happy to continue this all day long, and we did, until he finally went all-in with Q4o. I suppose this was a riskier line, but the reward was huge.

Going for a limp-reraise with AA is kind of the same thing. You're more likely to lose, but much more likely to get more than just the blinds.

[Dominic]

your play after the flop was ok...but I would've raised at least 3-4 times the BB pre-flop...you let him in cheap and he sucked out on you...exactly what he was hoping to do.

[NotReady]

I like the pre-flop play. I wouldn't push because I hate winning a small pot with AA. The small raise will either coax him to get it all in with you PF, which is what you want, or at least build a bigger pot.

I would push on the flop but I don't think it mattered much in this hand. Pot's big enough, if he doesn't have you beat, you're way ahead.

[sprmario]

AA is an 8 to 1 favorite over Q3 preflop and it's actually around a 9 to 1 favorite after that flop he has just enough odds to call the last raise of 200 into an 1800 chip pot. If I go all in at the flop and he calls he has totally wrong odds, but the result is that I still lose. The AA hand wins 89% of the time vs the Q3 after he hit the Q. It seems that at that point you want to do whatever you can to get him to put as much money into the pot as possible, if the best way is to make a small bets then I think you need to do that.

I guess I should add that I don't think he would have just called in any scenario. He was bullying the small stacks for quite a bit. I was fairly certain that If i had bet the pot he wouldn't have called and I thought that he'd come over the top on a small bet.

[hhboy77]

in reality, you're the only one who can really judge if it was a stupid play, but in this situation it doesn't appear to have been.

your goal with aces is to extract as much money in the hand as possible. the only way for it to be provably stupid was if your min raise gave away the strength of your hand and he folded a hand like aj that he would call the 1000 with.

i will say this though. as painful as it is to raise with aces and get no action, with your stack as short as it is winning just the blinds is still pretty good. one less obvious benefit of moving all in is that most of the hands he's going to call you with are the ones that are the biggest dogs, a-x. he's gonna throw away hands like 78 suited which is still a big dog, but as small a dog as you can get against aces.

[stripsqueez]

i think i would play this the same way

i dont think you have a big chance of folding your way into the money - you will have to take a couple more risks to get there from this spot - as you say if you double up you are a good shot at 1st or 2nd and virtually gauranteed in the money

i figure when the SB calls i am going all-in but nothing i do is likely to convince the SB to fold - if thats right i may as well bet in the manner most likely to cause the SB to match my stack whether that bet be pre-flop or on the river - i am completely fixated on the SB matching my stack - i dont care what the board looks like

if i think the SB is certain to call a pre-flop push i push - if not then i raise enough to ensure that with the tiniest part of the flop, turn, or river he will call my push given the huge odds, his fat stack, and the lure of knocking me out

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[soxfan70]

To think that he would try to trap with top pair and the second worst possible kicker isn't reasonable. The guy played this hand poorly, from the preflop call of the raise on out. And, his play got progressively worse. Not betting top pair to see where he stood from your resposne to his bet was weak. thinking his top pair 3 kicker was the best hand was even worse. He got sh!t lucky, don't fault yourself here.