Saudi tell

[Cyrus]

The Saudi tell

As soon as the American hostage was beheaded, the Saudi authorities were exchanging gunfire with the murderers/kidnappers. This shows that the Saudis had knowledge of at least where the hostage was held, if not also by whom.

The Saudis were not good at that hand of poker. They should have waited a decent amount of time (say a week) before clamping down on the gang. And that Saudi spokesman at the press conference, the American-eductaed guy, the one who is “advisor to the Saudi Foreign Minister”? His voice was shaking and he was sweating heavily, despite the tough talk about going after the killers. Clearly, a case of trying to sell strong when being weak – quite unsuccessfully too.

By the way : The new leader (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/21/alaoofi.ap/index.html)of Qaeda in Saudi Arabia reportedly trained with the Saudi military and worked as a prison guard in the Kingdom before joining Muslim militants in Afghanistan.

Another Son of Sam, literally.

[MMMMMM]

I agree it's a tell. Two-facedness has long been the secret official stance of the House of Saud, IMO

It's also really a crock overall.

Saudi Arabia has played "friends" with us for decades. In reality however they export Wahhabism which is a virulently anti-Western form of fundamentalist Islam. 80% of the mosques in the U.S. are financed by the powerful Wahhabis. The Saudi goal is One World Under Islam. Unfortunately along with fundamentalist Islam comes extremism and the jihadist ideology.

We swoon about the price of oil and do everything to stay "pals" with the Saudis for the sake of stability and supply. Meanwhile they are cutting our throats by exporting
the strongest sort of anti-Western ideology globally,in the mosques and madrassas.

At some point we will consider saying heck with it: these guys are hurting us and we are making them fabulously wealthy. Why bother. Just take over the country and the damn oil and close down the fanatical mosques and the whole pernicious Wahhabi infrastructure. But that's too barbaric to contemplate now so we just keep on, letting them indoctrinate fanatics against us, letting them teach hate of the West and first allegiance to the Muslim "nation" in U.S. mosques, and paying through the nose for oil as it climbs--and will climb over the next decade.

Push is slowly coming to shove and the next 5 years are critical. If democracy does not take root in the Middle East (and it very well might not), things are going to flare up a lot worse. There are no answers except either the Middle East becomes democratic, or the opposing forces and cultures build increasing pressures until there is a huge military conflict. For the sake of everyone, I hope the forces of progress and democracy prevail. If they do not,it is nearly certain there will be a coming explosion and the Middle East will be hammered like never before. The cultures of Islam and democracy are inherently incompatible
but a compromise is not necessarily impossible (as in Turkey). Much luck will be needed to pull it off and avoid catastrophe.

Julius Caesar wouldn't have stood for any of this crap, that's for sure. We have come a long way since then but whether the world as a whole can come along the democratic way too remains to be seen. If they don't they will eventually be flattened, and we will incur modest to substantial losses. That's not a recommendation, just a prediction.

[ACPlayer]

I agree. Lets make the world free and democratic at the point of a gun. By golly you are going to vote or else I will shoot you. That will work for sure.

Maniac bets and raises at tries to steal the Iraq pot. The better hand takes that pot away. What do you expect the maniac to do next -- bet and raise and try to steal the next pot too.

We would have been much better off changing out middle east policies relative to Saud and Egypt (the main culprits in the war on terror, and surprisingly our only two "friends" in the arab world). Instead we waste time, money, people and good will chasing personal agendas (did i do good for you pappy?), oil and business interests (yes, Al Qaeda and Saddam were in bed together said Dicky), and protecting the one terrorist state in the area that is already armed to the teeth with nukes (yes, we can save the state of Israel for the next kingdom, who cares anyway!).

The US still, possibly, holds the cards to force change in the middle east with sound policy changes. Playing GI Joe and starting more wars is for testosterone loaded boys and snake oil salesmen.

[nicky g]

"Saudi Arabia has played "friends" with us for decades. In reality however they export Wahhabism which is a virulently anti-Western form of fundamentalist Islam. 80% of the mosques in the U.S. are financed by the powerful Wahhabis. The Saudi goal is One World Under Islam. Unfortunately along with fundamentalist Islam comes extremism and the jihadist ideology.

We swoon about the price of oil and do everything to stay "pals" with the Saudis for the sake of stability and supply. Meanwhile they are cutting our throats by exporting
the strongest sort of anti-Western ideology globally,in the mosques and madrassas."

The House of Saud is a gang of corrupt thugs interested in little more than living the highlife in London casinos and brothels off Saudi oil revenues for as long as it can. It has next to no interest in promoting religious extremism or instability int eh West, to which it sells its oil adn where most of its profits are invested, especialy as the extremists are bent on overthrowing it. Fueeling extremism may be the consequence of its rule but it's not the intention.

[Utah]

I dont know much about the case, so I wont comment on it.

However, what would you have Bush and Co do? Surely, being a good liberal, you are happy that Dubya does absolutely nothing and that we play along with this fun game of world politics.

Surely, you arent implying that the Saudi's are bad, esp. after the call for a liberal love fest in Iraq?

[andyfox]

How about, for one thing, reducing our dependence on foreign oil, a policy to which we've heard all American presidents since (at least) Carter give lip service. Do away with gasoline-only powered automobiles; let's go with hydrogen or electric or hybrids.

F*ck the Saudis and f*ck the oil companies.

[paland]

In my travels, I have found that some people do not want freedom. They feel safe and snug being told what to do. They feel frightened by the notion that they would have to think for themselves. So you can't always count on the populace to back regime change.

I was/am against this war in Iraq but I also see that this is not going away. I fear that a major defeat is the only option at this point. The US cannot just walk away anymore. To do so would just be inviting Muslim fundamentalists free reign on their objectives and that is clearly not in the best interests of most of the Western countries.

I also have always felt that Saudi Arabia was involved more than the Saud family always let on. It wouldn't surprise me if they were fully aware of what was going to happen on 9/11. Saudi wants the western worlds money and then their destruction.

Just my paranoid thoughts.. Or are they??

[cardcounter0]

Interested in why you think the people the Saudi's killed were the actual people responsible.

Couldn't they have just quickly found a few chumps and offed them, and said "Look we already got the killers, nothing to see here, keep moving."

And since they are dead, no way to question them to see what was really going on, is there?

[David Steele]

I don't get the the implication.

Are you suggesting the Saudi's knew where the American
was but wanted him killed but also went ahead and shot
up the captors? Why not let them escape if they are party to it?

D.

[Utah]

Hi Andy minus a $100,

I agree that would be a great thing. However, every president has calculated correctly that giving up our dependancy on oil is the last thing Americans are willing to do. americans simply will not give up what it takes to reduce that depedancy. Look at the rate at which SUVs are selling. Heck, look at Anwar.

Why f*ck the oil companies? I dont get the hatred towards them.

[smudgex68]

I'm sure we all read the news to keep ourselves informed. From what I have read, the terrorists were seen in their car dropping off the dead body by a Saudi citizen who called the police and gave the car number plate. The police intercepted the car at a petrol station about 5 minutes later and shot dead some of the terrorists.

Am I being naive?

[Cyrus]

"Interested in why you think the people the Saudi's killed were the actual people responsible. Couldn't they have just quickly found a few chumps and offed them, and said 'Look we already got the killers, nothing to see here, keep moving.' "

Assume that things happened as you say. If they had nothing to prove, they would not act that way. Clearly, finding some "chumps" and killing them 24 hours after the hostage's murder shows a guilty conscience! They either know the real culprits of that specific murder or they are up to their necks with involvement in a bunch of other cases.

I submit that this is such a strong tell from the Saudis that the correct "play" would be to always wait a certain amount of time before acting, either way. (Reminds you of anything?)

[Cyrus]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Cyrus]

"Are you suggesting the Saudi's knew where the American was but wanted him killed but also went ahead and shot up the captors? Why not let them escape if they are party to it?"

Things are not that simple.

You have at one end of the spectrum the terrorists and at the other end those who are merely "understanding" to the terrorists' cause. In-between there are shades of loyalty -- from mere sympathy to outirght involvement.

The sympathizers among the Saudi security apparatus know a lot of things and so do those in the police and the army. They do not arrest but also they do not help the terrorists. Those who rather approve of the terrorist acts, assist by not doing much, by turning a deaf ear here and there, by dismissing good intelligence as "hearsay", etc.

Those who rather disapprove DO NOT arrest the terrorists (although they know who they are or know enough things to lead them to their arrest) but try to "reason" with them (towards what is best for the "cause", of course), to negotiate with them (how do you thing the hostage families manage to communicate with kidnappers?), etc.

That "spectrum" of sympathy is wide enough in Saudi Arabia to support my claim that things happen as I describe above. I would bet good money on this version, if I could.