More screw jobs at the Shoe

We had a respected poster here walk out of the Shoe a week ago because of unfair treatment for the dealers. Seems he made a wise decision.......


http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2002/May-22-Wed-2002/business/18805905.html

The only thing I might have done differently is fire them on the spot when they demanded a guaranteed tip pool. What do they think they are providing, room service?


Jimbo


PS: I am sure to get flamed for this response but that is only my opinion on this particular dispute, not necessarily the other dealer/player complaints.

you know me, I'm a stickler as for WHY you make these statements.

i read the article. why do dealers deserve $200 a day? per the article dealers are paid at an avg of $756 per. i know it depends on downs they have. how many people in usa would be glad to make $150 or $200 a day? about as many as could be dealers. aint no special skill in poker dealin. i have no problem with em bein fired for their tactics.

Oh dear...


1. It is absolutely correct that the dealers shouldn't have gotten themselves into this situation in the first place. They should have seen that with the six percent vig (none of it given to the dealers) that the envelopes were gonna be awfully thin.


They should have organized a priori and demanded (before they dealt a single card) a guaranteed income for the tournament.


2. The last-minute approach is unseemly and unprofessional. I'm sorry they did it that way.


3. The Binion/Behnen family is unethical, tending toward amoral. They deserve this mess. They deserve to lose the WSOP (or the prestige that it carries).


4. Dealers ought to get paid a real salary. With real benefits. At the very least, they should be guaranteed a percentage of the prize pool. Anything else leads to situations like this.


Regards, Lee

As I was the one that Clarkmeister mentions leaving a week ago I think I should point out that most thought they'd still make a decent wage.

But we were all a bit concerned too.


You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned a gaurantee prior to "cards in the air".


Whats really too bad tho is that the dealers will not stick together as a group. Until such time as that unethical owners such as those mentioned will continue to take advantage of the situation. However we are fortunate that most owners don't operate in this manner.


I personally quit a week before the final event. It was strictly business. I wasnt making $60 a shift in average tokes, while I was running pot limit games with pots upwards of $20K efficiently(sp) and always protecting each player equally. There was more then one time that a "wad" of $100 bils was thrown into the pot and the amount was off by 1-2 hundred. But I continuosly would be stiffed. Rarely would a player ask what the pot was and I couldn't tell them the exact amount.

Ok, they didnt care about nor apprecieate the service. No problem, I quit. I went to a local card room on the strip and am happy to deal 3-6 to players with manners that are thankful for a little customer service and I'm making 2 1/2-3 times what I made at the shoe for the WSOP.


As to your point # 2. I understand exactly what you mean. I think tho that the dealers whom had already sent a letter to Becky asking for her help and getting no response whatsoever was the first step in a lack of professionalism. Any response would have been better. Lack of any response should no respect at all and made the dealers resentful instead of just unhappy about not making any money. Ignoring the letter completely was probably the catalyst to the walkout.


But what did Becky do? She actually added money to the toke envelopes of the tournament dealers. Early on in the WSOP. Small amounts were added to bring the average up to around $6-7 a down. A small amount granted but did she let the dealers know she was doing this? NO. POSSIBLY had she responded to the dealers letter instead of quietly doing what she did she may have avoided the bad press. Apparently her point was to not let the players find out and not tip anything at all. But the dealers didnt know it either. And the 6-7 a down is pretty low anyways.


What about the rest of us? never did she do anything. Sat dealers/live game upstairs, absolutely brutal. So I bailed. Maybe most of us should have just quit early on.


Lee thank you for your thoughts.

As a dealer there let me tell you this. WE WERE NOT MAKING $100 day!


I quit 1 week before the final event. Why? Because with my $5.15 per hour, plus the $4.80 per hr avg in tips. coupled with the IRS/BINIONS

"toke agreement" of declaring $8.50 per hour in tokes per dealer, I was LOSING money.


Thats right a forced delaration of $8.50 per hour in tokes.


The WSOP used to attract the best dealers in the country for 3-4 weeks of the year. They made very good money. That came to an end last year. It got worse this year. If you were to enter you would want the best in there for you too. But alas you probably will never enter an event and would most assuredly with your attitude of being "better then" would be eliminated qwickly anyways as your ego would get in the way of play. Experts know how to take advantage of this. I know I do. I would be happy to play you in a tournament situation anytime. I like dead money.

im just quoting from the article. dealer gripen cause they ain't makin $200 a day. take the amount they extorted out of becky and due the math yourself it comes out to around $150 a day for 5 days. it aint the first time ive heard gripes by dealers like this and like yours. i know it depends on the downs the dealers have. question still stands, why do dealers deserve $200 a day? why do dealers deserve $150 a day? hey dude no offense but your "profession" doesn't require a lot of skill. at least none that a lot of people cant learn to do. whinin like yours makes it sound like you think you have a rite to make a living as a dealer you dont. its your choice. if the dealers got such a royal shafting i guess they wont be back next year. if the situation isnt worth it for dealers they wont work the series next year and we wont have one. so what? its a business decision by the shoe. theyre tryin to make as much money as they can. whats wrong with that? nobodys holdin a gun to the dealers head to work there. nobodys holdin a gun to the players head to play there. just think of this man. online poker is already popular partly for a very big reason. you dealers arent in the loop. online players dont have to tip ya and they get more hands per hour because you dont have the hope of dealin that fast or that well. looks to me like dealers are goin the way of the dinasauer. maybe ill stop tippin your a*s to speed along the process.