Which player played best? Bay101

[swimfan]

East Coaster at Bay101. Table has turned from super LAG to semi LAG. Let's make believe this is a 10-20 or 15-30 hand (actually 6-12, however rather post the hand action in this forum; usually play 10-20 to 15-30 so would like to get feedback from this forum). Which player played best with their hand, did any players make a mistake during the course of action, or is this hand straightforward from all perspectives?

Player A is in SB with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, fairly straightforward player
Player B is in LMP with J /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif, LAG
Player C is in CO with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, varies between TP and TAG

Pre-Flop:

UTG+1 limps, all fold to Player B who limps, Player C raises, button folds, SB and BB call as do other two.

Flop:
Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

All check to Player C (CO) who bets, Player A (SB) calls, and Player B (LMP) calls.

Turn:
Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

All check to Player C (CO) who bets, Player A (SB) raises, Player B (LMP) calls. Player C (CO) 3-bets, Player A (SB) calls as does Player B (LMP)

River:
Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif

Player A checks, Player B checks, Player C checks.


I was player C in this hand. Think Player B missed an obvious river bet, am curious to see if Player A's line is typical; or how differently you would play player A and C's hand. Thanks for any comments.

[andyfox]

If I were player A, I'd have 3-bet pre-flop and bet and 3-bet the flop.

If I were player B, I'd have folded pre-flop and bet the river [sic].

If I were player C, I'd have done exactly as you did, except that the river card would have been a blank. /images/graemlins/wink.gif But I'd sure stay in that game.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Which player played best?

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny.

Are you looking for an ego stroke or a crying shoulder?

I think You played it well, though.

Just don't ask dumb questions next time. You could have asked if you played this hand as well as possible, that would have made sense...

[Richie Rich]

Player C --> played it best of all...he put his money in the pot on the flop & turn when he was confident that he had the best hand;

Player B --> was lucky to hit a third /images/graemlins/club.gif on the river, but was obviously on some sort of draw since he was check-calling all the way to the end...obviously he missed a value bet on the river;

Player A --> played it worst of all...didn't defend his TPTK on a draw-happy flop...went aggro on the turn with his two pair, when he could've been losing to a handful of better hands, including: AA, QQ, TT, 88, KJ/J9.

But then again, Player B calling a raise btf with J2s is nasty.

[SossMan]

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say it was the guy stacking the chips.

[Softrock]

As others have stated, Player B should not have been in this pot. Assuming he gets to the river he did indeed miss a bet. This is certainly the sort of player you want in your game.

I think Player A played too passively - not sure a raise BTF is necessary but TPTK is generally not strong enough to play passively until the turn.

Regarding your play the only potential criticism would be the BTF raise. With a medium pair the best scenarios are either heads up or multiway - least favorable is against exactly two opponents. If you limp, you guarantee multi-way action. Raising you potentially put yourself against exactly two players. This disadvantage is somewhat offset by taking charge with a raise. Raising isn't a "bad" play but I actually think limping would be the higher EV longterm.

[Avatar]

Player A --> Needs to C/R the flop.
Player B --> Needs to learn what hands to play pre-flop. And bet the river since he's there with the near-nuts.
Player C --> Tough call between limping/raising pre-flop. Not sure actually what holds better long-term EV. Maybe someone else can give some insight. 8s with a low flop will hold up their fair share against 2-opponents. But as we know, any med/low pocket pair has very decent EV if we can get more players in there.

Question for you Swimfan, as player C. If Player A or B bets out on the river, or you folding or making a cry for help call?

[LarsVegas]

You definitely played your hand in the most similar manner to what I would have. Player A has a clear check-raise on the flop.

How can player B be described as a LAG and not give more heat on this hand on the flop and turn?

On the river, I actually think it's very close between betting or checking for you. The straight won't be out there often, as it's certainly not out there yet by the turn - and it will rarely raise you anyway.

I usually bet a set in a three-way pot when it's checked to me on the river despite the third flush card hitting. It's quite obvious in this pot that there is some made hand values out there amongst the others on the turn as well, at least in Player A's hand. He may of course, hold Acxc.

lars

[swimfan]

And to also reply to several of the posts...

I didn't mean to sound arrogant by asking who played best; when I wrote the post I thought player A played it ok, and wasn't sure about my pre-flop raise with limpers. For player A, wanted to know if he should have 3-bet pre-flop, check-raised the flop, or played his hand properly. With top A's top two pair, a check-raise on the turn would make it somewhat more expensive for player B's draw than had he c-r the flop; and he could be more confident he was ahead with his hand at the turn. Had player B bet the river, thought he played his hand ok with the exception of pre-flop. And because player B was very LAG, I didn't immediately put him on a flush since he didn't bet out that flop, or jam the turn with additional gutshot outs. I probably should have added additional info in the first post about B's general play with draws. I didn't think my question was dumb because I thought player A played it alright at the time, however the more I thought about it, I became more curious. Definitely not a bad-beat story, however I guess I am looking for re-assurance that I played it alright. Perhaps I could have worded it better.

Had player B bet the river, I would have made a crying call on the river since I was very confident player A had 2 pair when he didn't cap the turn, and the pot size was large.

I think I may have bet out if say the 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif came out. I wasn't entirely sure B was on a flush draw given prior hands. The K made it easier to check.

Here's my follow up question. Had player A check-raised the flop and you were confident a flush draw is in the middle, is it better for me to call the flop, and raise the anticipated bet on the turn (non-club)? Or to re-raise the flop? My general line would be the latter, however andyfox's reply makes me rethink this...

[swimfan]

Very true.