What are "raising hands"?

[djcolts]

I just purchased PokerTracker last week. I've played about 1500 hands or so on it. I'm down about $25 playing Party 1/2 longhand since I bought it - but I had a really bad day at 1/2 yesterday (this post isn't about that - bad days happen).

My VP$IP is 13.9%, and I think my pre-flop raising pct was around 4.5% (which is too low). So, assuming that I have categories like below:

Cat 1: AA, KK, QQ, AKs, JJ, AQs, AKo (raising hands)
Cat 2: TT, AQo, 99, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs, 88, QJs, JTs (possible raises - but I've done little of that
Cat 3: small pairs, Axs, other suited connected (call hands in multi-way pots)
Cat 4: AJo, ATo, KQo, KJo (semi-playable - raise only in late position to steal blinds).

Assuming middle position with no raises (but possible calls) - which hands are "raisable" in Party 1/2 (for example).

Thanks.

[chief444]

You are a rock. I raise pretty much any of your category 2 listings from MP in an unraised pot as well as AJo, KQo. I would raise A10o or KJo from later positions if no one else has limped in or if one weaker opponent limped in. I sometimes raise hands you list in category 3 from late position depending on the situation. Your VP$IP is low as well as your pfr%.

[lu_hawk]

Yes, 4.5% is too low. You say you've done little raising with Category 2 hands, but this is a mistake. Most of the hands in that list should be raised consistently.

You're also too tight with the Cat 4 hands. Most of those hands are more than semi-playable and should be raised in most positions, especially AJo.

I think you are missing some EV by folding hands that could be played(13.9% is too low at 1/2). But this isn't a problem now, as you get more experience you will start to understand what kind of situations warrant loosening up. It's infinitely better to be too tight while you are learning than too loose.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
.


Cat 1: AA, KK, QQ, AKs, JJ, AQs, AKo (raising hands)
Cat 2: TT, AQo, 99, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs, 88, QJs, JTs (possible raises - but I've done little of that
Cat 3: small pairs, Axs, other suited connected (call hands in multi-way pots)
Cat 4: AJo, ATo, KQo, KJo (semi-playable - raise only in late position to steal blinds).



[/ QUOTE ]

Well everything is situational so it does vary. Generally, though, your category one hands look fine.

In category two I'd put A-Qo as a most of the time raising hand. TT in mp with no raisers, probably a raise, with a buncha limpers already in though, maybe a limp. 99 and 88 mostly not a raise. KQs is pretty situational, but can be raised with some regularity. The rest are either not raisers or only occaisional raisers--although in loose game with bad opponents A-Js could be raised more frequently--particularly if your style tends to the aggressive.

--Zetack

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]

You're also too tight with the Cat 4 hands. Most of those hands are more than semi-playable and should be raised in most positions, especially AJo.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. K-Jo is a classic trouble hand. A-10o is a weakish hand that can be played stongly against the right opponents but for the most part could very well be avoided and A-Jo is just plain tricky and not as strong as it looks( although I wouldn't go so far as to call it semi-playable as the poster does).

K-Qo on the other hand is more than a semi-playable hand--those are real cards and can often be played strongly.

--Zetack

[lu_hawk]

You're right about KJo, I rarely play it. ATo is borderline, I muck it from early position, I raise from late position if I think I can keep it shorthanded, and I'll sometimes limp, sometimes muck from late position with a lot of limpers ahead.

Do you really think KQo is a stronger hand than AJo?

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right about KJo, I rarely play it. ATo is borderline, I muck it from early position, I raise from late position if I think I can keep it shorthanded, and I'll sometimes limp, sometimes muck from late position with a lot of limpers ahead.

Do you really think KQo is a stronger hand than AJo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting question. Judge for yourself, but here are some considerations:

K-Q: If you hit the flop with either of your cards, there is only one higher kicker out there (you lose only to an A-Q, A-K). With A-J if you hit the ace there are two better kickers.

With K-Q you only have to worry about one overcard (3 outs) whichever card you pair. With A-J if you hit the Jack, there are two overcards to worry about.

With A-J, if you pair the jacks there are four sets of big pairs to worry about, AA, KK, QQ, JJ. With KQ, only two if you pair the Kings, only three if you pair the Queens. (Of course if you pair aces with A-J the advantage goes to A-J as only pocket Aces then are a problem for you.)

A-J does have the advantage of being a stronger unimproved hand...but I confess I don't win a lot of pots at showdown with umimproved hands at the limits I'm playing.

Also because people are more likely to play with aces and stay in too long with aces, there is somewhat of an increased chance of somebody being in there to beat your K-Q when an ace falls on the turn or river--if you have A-J and pair say, the jack, on the flop you don't worry about the ace falling and may be better able to drive out random king and Queen hands before the river.

--Zetack

[djcolts]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I've gotten in trouble with KJo enough times that I don't like playing it now. AJo is tempting for me to play, but I sometimes muck it - especially in early position. ATo is sometimes a trouble hand (well, technically they all are, but you know what I mean).

What is an "ideal" VP$IP for 1/2? I've looked at the Lee Jones' book and I'm uncomfortable with the looseness of his starting hands - I'd rather play much tighter than that pre-flop. What hands would you add to my "starting hand list"?

[yzerman18]

An ideal VP$IP truely depends on the player. There are a lot of playable hands at the mirco-limits especially in late position.

Some players can see 25% voluntarly, others need to only see 15%. It depends on what you are comfortable with and just how much confidence you have in your post flop play and your hand reading ablities. Can you release the trouble hand when they get tricky? Can you extract maximum value from hands such as AJo & K10o when you hit with them?

Stats are just a tool and you need a significant sample to make them useful.