BB defense situation

[Clarkmeister]

Super good 100-200 game at the Commerce. It is being played with $20 chips, and the blinds are 5 chips-3 chips.

MP open raises almost all in and has 2 chips left. Folded to me in the SB, I fold some cheese, and the action is on the BB.

The BB looks at how many chips the MP open raiser has left. She flips up T2o in front of her. Says "I don't know if this is the right play, but I raise you all in", and tosses out 7 chips, putting MP all-in.

Did she do the right thing?

[mike l.]

"Did she do the right thing?"

i didnt do the math but im pretty sure the answer is yes.

[Glenn]

Technically, she should probably call and bet out on the flop unless she flops a ten or better, but in reality, it almost surely doesn't matter.

[Elephant's Eye]

No.

[Ezcheeze]

If the raise is a truly random hand then yes. If the raise is at all indicitave of a true MP raise then no, she made a mistake.

[ike]

If MP is going to raise with unpaired cards higher than 10, any pocket pair, and some worse hands, she has made the correct play by alot. This would be my read of MP here. Only if there is reason to believe big pocket pairs comprise a large percentage of MP's possible holdings is folding acceptable. Glenn is, I suppose, correct in saying that she should call and lead the flop when she misses, but I garauntee all the chips are going in every single time; MP wants to leave, thats why he's trying to go all-in.

[Gabe]

Yes. Who's gonna bluff who out of the pot on the flop for two more chips?

[SA125]

No. It's not a tournament. What difference does it make if he's bluffing? She's the BB and has T2o crapola. Why risk 7 chips on that? I'd treat it as any other play from the BB against an MP o/r. Fold crap, call good and raise with very good.

[andyfox]

If she was going to play for the balance of the guy's chips, why not just call, and then put the 2 chips in no matter what the flop? There's no chance of the opponent folding if you can't bet the flop, and at least some chance of him folding if you do.

[David Sklansky]

Theoretically the right play is to call and bet the flop. Moving in preflop is probably the same thing. Folding is almost certainly wrong.

[bicyclekick]

I wouldn't have done it. I woulda picked another spot. He'll lose all of his chips eventually anyhow. gotta be a better spot.

[SnakeRat]

Yes raise and then say something like, "I thought your were stealing"

People will see her raise with garbage from the BB, and give her good action. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nummerfire]

Why should you get the better spot.

You are getting 7:20 pot odds and only overpairs and hands with tens in them are very big favourites over you.

Kim

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes raise and then say something like, "I thought your were stealing"

People will see her raise with garbage from the BB, and give her good action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah your typical 100-200 player is precisely that much of a donk.

~D

[ZeeJustin]

The BB is risking $240 to win $740.
3 to 1 pot odds. If the raisor flips up ATo (which is just about as bad as it gets sans AA-TT), the BB is very close to getting correct odds to call anyway.

Seems like an easy call to me.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Given that the player who raised is almost all in, and it's only another 2/5 of a bet to put him all in by reraising, and the BB is getting good odds, the play is fine. Given the kamakaze all-in play in progress by the raiser, no hand is likely to be such a dog as to turn down those pot odds. Those who say just call and bet any flop are technically right, except that there is no chance the guy will fold, so just reraising the last two chips is right for one reason - it saves time in the game.

al

[andyfox]

Seems like theoretically, then, I almost certainly, probably, got this right.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have done it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be losing EV here. The raiser is likely to have a non-pair hand. Even against two overcards like KQo, you ahve about 33% equity in the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
I woulda picked another spot...gotta be a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not allowed to do that. You can only pick this spot or choose not to pick this spot. You were dealt T2o and no other playing options are given to you

[ QUOTE ]
He'll lose all of his chips eventually anyhow.

[/ QUOTE ]

But, he's much less likely to lose them to you if you give up this opportunity.

BTW, I think this guy won the hand and ended up cashing out for about two racks without making any rebuys.

[J.A.Sucker]

I didn't realize that you were the SB when we talked about this earlier. Damn, Clark, how bad was YOUR hand?!? Granted, you need a better hand than her, but how much?

Actually, I assume that the BB was a tough player, right? This may be even more interesting than the BB's decision.

Good seeing you again, as always.

[DcifrThs]

clark,

i think my memory may be failing me but if it isn't i'm quite surprised by this post...

its almost identical to one posted in the forum a while ago where the bb raised a low chip virtually all in mp raiser with total crap and most agreed it was the right thing to do, or at least call and bet the flop perhaps getting a fold...i see a lot of people responded to this so almost everything i've said is probably in other posts.

in either case i think this has been brought up befor and the order of action from best to worst is:

1) call. bet the flop.

2) raise mp all in.

3) fold. (bad)

-Barron

[tipperdog]

Yes. BB is getting nearly 3:1 pot odds and is less than a 3:1 dog against all hands except overpairs and better tens or dueces. Given that players tend to loosen up (anywhere from a little to a lot) when they're down to their last few chips, it seems quite a leap to put MP on an overpair. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me at all if MP held only a single overcard.

As for the debate about whether to raise or flat call the flop...it really doesn't matter. With a $500-ish pot, MP's last $40 is going in, either pre-flop or on the flop.

[andyfox]

While I've never played 100-200, I'm surprised how often I see an almost all-in player fold for just a few chips in 40-80. The guy's got something like J-9s and the flop comes, oh, A-4-2, or A-K-3, or he's got 7-6 and the flop comes A-K-J and there's a bet and he folds. While it may not happen often, there's absolutely no advantage I can see in not keeping him with the two chips to at least try it.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
he's got 7-6 and the flop comes A-K-J and there's a bet and he folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.