Why I Don't Tip: An Essay

[BusterStacks]

Every time I go to Starbucks, I'm ingaged in a confrontation. Not with the person taking my order, but with that little box full of coins and a few dollar bills. At first I was troubled by this. It's clearly a tip "jar", and the odd prices of coffee there certainly leave me with some coins I don't feel like carrying. Shouldn't I just throw my money in? It wasn't long before I took a stance on this implied tax though, and realize that there was no way in hell I was tipping at Starbucks.

You know what a tip is? It's something EXTRA. It's money paid above and beyond the item price, presumably for exceptional service. That's not to say my service was bad, because it wasn't. In fact it was quite timely. Having said that, I have news for you, Starbucks worker: That's your freaking job. Don't give me that look of disdain when I pocket my change, because why the hell should you get even a penny of it? Did you punch my order into your computer in a way that was above what you are paid to do? I didn't think so. No in fact, I can't see myself ever tipping you. I can't think of a single way you could possible earn the 35 cents I get back from paying from buying this overpriced Americano. You know who deserves a tip more than you? Just about everybody. How about the guy busting his ass at Burger King to make 10 Whoppers in under a minute? That guy works harder than your pretty boy ass ever will and he doesn't have a god damn jar sitting out.

You want to know who gets my tip? The bartender who pours my drink a little stronger. The pizza guy who got here in 5 minutes. The grocery guy who talked to me about the game when he carried my bags out. These guys get a couple bucks for making my life a little bit better, not some metrosexual hipster who fashions himself as an independant film critic in his spare time. It's not that I don't like you as a person, Starbucks worker/ cute waitress/ Chinese-Takeout cashier, it's just that you expect that I am going to tip you, and if it were up to me, you wouldn't get a damn tip from anyone. Unless I would specifically request YOU to serve me again, you can forget about getting anything off me. I can't wait for the day you say something too me, either. Because that day I will put you to the test: tell me why I should tip you, and I will. Until then, do the job you are paid to do.

[MMMMMM]

Just wondering if you ever tip at Dunkin' Donuts. I have tipped on occasion there but never at Starbucks.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

1) I have never felt that a Starbucks employee has ever looked at me funny for not tipping. (disclaimer - people are almost universally polite to me)

2) I know that tips are voluntary, so I wasted my time reading your post (I thought it was going to be a thoughtful essay on not tipping *dealers*)

3) I think the tip jars are brilliant. Fact: Most people hate carrying around change. Solution: Most people who patronize Starbucks don't give a hoot about the $0.43 in change, so why not give them a convenient place to deposit those annoying little pieces of metal.

[Paddy]

This rant was much funnier in Reservoir Dogs.

I tip. I tip everyone. Why not? Throwing your change (which will probably fall out of your pocket anyway) into that little box will make someone a little happier, if only for a few moments. It's so easy.

I should mention that I'm not some super-hippy who believes in Karma, or anything. I just think not tipping if the service was adequate is just silly. Take a stand on a more signifigant issue. Like saving/nuking the whales...

[BeerMoney]

I think Buster makes a good point in that, there are a lot of people out there working harder than those in the service industry that are making quite a bit less. I'm seriously sick of tipping.

Why should I tip as a function of the total $$ of my order? Who says the waitress at a diner works any less than the waitress at a fancy restaurant. People always feel bad when they don't leave a good tip, like it is their responsibilty to make sure their server makes a good living. Meanwhile, this server did not have to go through college or any lengthy apprenticeship period to get their skills. It is unskilled labor. Why doesn't anyone feel bad for the poor chump in the dishroom working twice as hard? No one felt bad for me when i was loading 40 foot trucks at UPS. Where was my tip? I did someone a service. I worked five times harder than any waiter or dealer. Nobody felt the need to make sure I was making $20/hour.

I forgot to tip a dealer one time, after a big hand I won. I was pumped up from the hand, and I said thanks to the dealer, but forgot to tip her. Some dickehead at my table said "don't thank her, tip her, this is how they make their living!" I told the guy that he should tip her if he was so concerned.


What % do you usually tip at a restaurant? Will you give a shitty tip if your service is shitty? Do you always tip your dealer after you win a pot?

** I do realize dealers have to go through a fairly extensive 1 or 2 month training period..

[Utah]

Why not save yourself all that typing? I can summarize why you dont tip in two words:

Your cheap.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
I worked five times harder than any waiter or dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe because they make $2.13 an hour and depend on tips. I am quite sure I am one the bigger tippers on this forum. I use to bartend years ago and know what it's like. I tip 25-35% for average service and higher to much higher for better service or a hookup. I tip when I get a carry out, I tip the guy that washes my car, I tip the guy that mows my lawn and on and on and on and yes I tipped the girl at Starbucks today a $1 and somehow did not feel compelled to write a 20 minute bad beat story on tipping .43 cents.

[MMMMMM]

I'd like to know if you have any other good essays we might read?

By the way, you still haven't answered my question about Dunkin' Donuts.

[Sundevils21]

I agree with you slacker. I tip at almost every opportunity, although not very much(i'm poor /images/graemlins/frown.gif). The lady on rollerskates who brings me my food at sonic, the pizza delivery guy, the guy who cleans off my golf clubs at the end of a round... not enough to make their living, but I make a point to do it.

[BusterStacks]

I plan to write several more essays because I often find myself defending my strange views. I haven't been to dunkin' donuts in years, but in high school I went there often and tipped because the guy was very cool and friendly. Some responses, I don't feel I'm cheap, this whole essay must have gone over your head. The point was to illustrate that tipping has become commonplace and needs to be reevaluated if it is to maintain it's original purpose. FYI, I have never seen reservoir dogs, but now that you mention it, I think someone told me to watch it last time I went on this tyraid. My next essay will be either on women's rights or reverse racism, I'm not quite sure which.

[Non_Comformist]

I've seen similar discussions many times. Am I the only one who has never given it much thought either way?

[Eihli]

Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[SinCityGuy]

I am an above average tipper, but there is one place that I refuse to tip.

I sometimes order pizza from Little Caesars on the way home, and I pick it up on the way instead of having it delivered.

Of course, I walk in and there's the big TIP canister next to the cash register. As far as I'm concerned, I'll be happy to throw in $1 if the cashier wants to tip me $2 for driving in to pick up the pizza.

[daryn]

if you're going to shrink a point down to two words at least get them both right.

[andyfox]

Thirty-five cents ain't worth an essay.

[stripsqueez]

mr pink was right

institutionalised tipping is dumb

i tip the pizza delivery guy 20% on average - i have used the same pizza shop for 7 years from the same address - if they are dramatically late i dont tip - if i get hot salami/mushroom/extra chilli pizza as opposed to warm i'm very happy as compared to satisfied - its been a couple of years since i was merely satisfied

i always tip at my 2 favourite restaurants and i always get a table even if it means jumping the queue - i always tip the 2 dealers in my regular live game twice the average tip for a decent pot when i leave - they both make a point of offering to buy me a scotch at some point in the evening and will happily arrange anything i need without me having to get up from the table

i never tip if i'm not getting something for it - its a win/win arrangement

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[J_V]

I tip because I have socialistic tendencies and feel guilty winning all the Party Poker money. Thus, I give something back to those people less versed in reverse implied odds.

[Zeno]

Three paragraphs equals an essay?

No comment except that the best part of your tirade is that there was no mention about the conflict in Iraq, John Kerry, or the dismal IQ of Republicans.

-Zeno

[MMMMMM]

"Thirty-five cents ain't worth an essay."

Some essays, though, are worth thirty-five cents.

[andyfox]

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Very good.

[MarkL444]

I just want you to know that your little logo made me chuckle.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
if i get hot salami/mushroom/ extra chilli pizza

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF do you guys do to pizza over there?

[John Cole]

I would like to read an essay in which you attempt to account for the reasons why people are almost universally polite to you, Kurn.

[ChristinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[/ QUOTE ]
With apologies to Zeno:

John Kerry will raise the minimum wage to $7.00

[ChristinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
mr pink was right


[/ QUOTE ]
Are you refering to the character in Reservior Dogs or this forums own Steven Pink character?

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
re you refering to the character in Reservior Dogs or this forums own Steven Pink character?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not great at remembering actors but i reckon steve boscemi's character was mr pink who whined about tipping the waitress at the start

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Utah]

LOL - grammar was never my strong suit. However, I still like the composition and the two words (bad grammar aside) are deadly accurate here. When someone complains about tipping it means only one thing - they are cheap.

Corrected form - you're cheap

[elwoodblues]

I don't get you're point /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF do you guys do to pizza over there?

[/ QUOTE ]

poorly worded - i meant salami and mushroom pizza that normally has some chilli on it with extra chili - perhaps a garlic bread too and real coke

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No need for an essay. Even though I'm pretty easy-going I just happen to look like a guy you don't want to piss off. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[smudgex68]

Off topic

web page Bizzarri (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/81234_retail03.shtml?searchpagefrom=2&searchdiff=6 89)

[ QUOTE ]
The native of Italy is a third-generation coffee roaster. His grandfather, Ornello Bizzarri, established a roasting business in Italy following World War II, and his father, Umberto Bizzarri, founded the Torrefazione Italia coffee company in 1986.



[/ QUOTE ]

My Italian girlfriend's family business, sold to Seattle coffee Company, then AFC and Starbucks in 2003. Nonno Ornello was the black sheep of the family, PoW, bit of a rascal.
No need to tip them, they made a fortune in the US

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
John Kerry will raise the minimum wage to $7.00

[/ QUOTE ]

No he won't not even if he's elected president. No way he get's that one through Congress.

[Zeno]

John Kerry, if elected, will not be able to govern by fiat. I assume you mean that under Mr. Kerry's administration legislation will be introduced to raise the minimum wage, which then must pass both houses of congress. Not an easy task, especially unaltered so don't bet on the $7.00 holding up. Assuming all this happens of course.

No apologie needed by the way.

-Zeno

edit: did not read/see adios' post before sending up my own flag.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your a fool. Most service industry people especially here in Florida make $2.13 and hour. I should know, I have managed bars in the past and am currently putting together my own sports bar. Out of the $2.13 an hour every cent at the end of the week goes to taxes. My employees in the past weekly checks would range from .15 cents to as high as a few dollars. Thats it! So don't be a cheap ass and tip.

[MMMMMM]

"John Kerry will raise the minimum wage to $7.00"

In my personal opinion, there should be no minimum wage. If employers pay too little they will simply price themselves out of the labor market, even for high-school kids on summer vacation.

The minimum wage is a total joke as nobody can make a living on it anyway, and if employers paid much less they would get nobody to work for them (service sector jobs such as bartenders and wait staff excluded for obvious reasons). So what the minimum wage really provides, IMO, is a way for government to meddle and "look good" and assuage the consciences of guilt-tripping middle Americans.

The minimum wage probably accomplishes little or nothing more than the above, but it does create red tape and enhances government's already overbearing powers over individuals and businesses.

Give the matter over to the free market. Guaranteed McDonald's won't be able to adequately staff their registers and grills for much less than the current minimum wage anyway, even if job perks were to include all the Big Macs and french fries one could stuff one's face with.

Actually, does McDonald's pay only minimum wage, or do they pay a bit more? If they pay more presently, it is a sure sign that they do so because they can't get away with paying only minimum wage--due to the labor market. I haven't checked it out in about 20 years but I'll bet McDonald's is paying more than the minimum wage right now. So what does the minimum wage really mean.

[Zeno]

McDonald's does pay more than minimum wage for entry level employees and has health and other benefits. Two years ago, I saw a placard in a Macdonalds that was hiring and the hourly pay was, I think, $6.50.

-Zeno

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your a fool. Most service industry people especially here in Florida make $2.13 and hour. I should know, I have managed bars in the past and am currently putting together my own sports bar. Out of the $2.13 an hour every cent at the end of the week goes to taxes. My employees in the past weekly checks would range from .15 cents to as high as a few dollars. Thats it! So don't be a cheap ass and tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is false. You are only taxed on tips you report above a certain level. But really, you aren't addressing my point. If you don't like the pay of the job, get another job. You knew the ups and downs of the job when you applied for it. It's your attitude of expecting a tip that is part of the reason why I'm not tipping for average service. If you took a job expecting something that was not explicitly in writing, I think you're the fool.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
LOL - grammar was never my strong suit. However, I still like the composition and the two words (bad grammar aside) are deadly accurate here. When someone complains about tipping it means only one thing - they are cheap.

Corrected form - you're cheap

[/ QUOTE ]


i don't know about the cheap thing. i'm not very tight with money, but if someone suggested that i tip someone that doesn't deserve to be tipped, i will object. i mean, tipping really is bullshit, but i do it.

[Utah]

Yeah, tipping in bullshit in a lot of cases. Unfortunately, tipping is the custom of the land. If those few extra dollars are so important to you that you are willing to break the norms of society then I think you have to be considered cheap by definition.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Let me start of by saying I tip only at a few places.
1. Restaurants
2. bars
3. Barber shop
4. Occasionally while gambling

Now as far as tipping goes, when I am in a bar, and it is failry busy, I always give the bartender 1-2 really good tips. I do this for a few reasons. 1. I know their busy and they are working hard, they deserve a good tip. 2. A few good tips early will pay off later, because the bartender remembers you and will get you drinks much quicker than he will for others. In restaraunts, I tip 10-15 for average service. If the service is bad they get a bad tip. The whole point of going to retaraunts is to be served, they work there to serve you. I don't go there to sit around and wait for drinks, or for someone to refill my glass or take my order.
I once got in a argument with one of my friends over tipping. He said he always gives 15% regardless of service, a few other people who were there agreed. I told him if he does that, then he is a mark, and thats the type of people most waiters like having because regardless of the service they still get paid.

Someone said being a waiter is a unskillful job, and I actually disagree to some extent. When you go to a nice reastaraunt, the service you get is usually superb, and your waiter or waitress is usually incredibly knowledgeable in regards to the type of food served, as well as how it is prepared. They also usually have a good knowledge of the wines and liquors they serve as well. It definitely takes some time and dedication to get where these people are at.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
This is false. You are only taxed on tips you report above a certain level. But really, you aren't addressing my point. If you don't like the pay of the job, get another job. You knew the ups and downs of the job when you applied for it. It's your attitude of expecting a tip that is part of the reason why I'm not tipping for average service. If you took a job expecting something that was not explicitly in writing, I think you're the fool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey numb nuts, who said I had a job working for tips. I happen to do extremely well financially and in case your having problems understanding what i write, I AM THE ONE WHO TIPS WELL. Also, don't try to explain to me something you do not know about, it makes you look more stupid than you already are.
If your trying to justify your being a cheap ass then don't bother, I don't want to hear it. Get a life!

[MMMMMM]

I agree overall (for restaurants, etc.) except for good service I go closer to 20% (usually 20% rounded down slightly). For great service I sometimes go even higher (years ago there was a hair-cutter who was great and since such persons are such a rare find I tipped her like 50%). For "just OK" service I go 15% or so. For truly poor service I leave a good bit less than that.

I often now also give the guys at the highway service areas who pump the gas then do the windshield a buck or the change. I tipped a guy who went a bit out of his way to fix a tail light for me at K-Mart or Wal-Mart; he was a service technician. The guys at the Quick-Oil-Change place nearby looked over my car for hoses, belts and leaks right after I bought the car when I brought it in for an oil change. I gave the manager a $20 dollar bill for the guys to buy pizza or whatever for lunch out of appreciation (and also let them know, so the manager couldn't pocket it;-)). I am not a rich guy but I feel that people in the service indystry who really make an effort to deliver great service deserve a tip, even if it is not in a "typical" tip-friendly industry.

One area where I do not tip everyone is dealers. If they do a decent job, or even if they are new and really trying, they are deservant of a tip. On the other hand if they just sit there and deal as though they are trying to see how few hands they can get out per hour, or if they don't pay attention to the game (occasional lapses forgiven), then I don't feel they deserve much if anything. Still I tip most dealers who keep their own tips. I have worked a little bit as a dealer before whenever I dealt I busted my chops trying to be fast, accurate and efficient and to run the game well. One thing I can't stand is dealers who don't even make an effort to do a good job.

One arena where I tip much less is in pooled tip situations, because there the quality of service overall is significantly degraded and a great many of the dealers aren't even trying (a perfect example of how socialistic-style methods suck).

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
If your trying to justify your being a cheap ass then don't bother, I don't want to hear it. Get a life!

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is he cheap? Just because he doesn't tip everytime? I think with him, the money is not the problem, its the notion that people deserve a tip for no reason other than the fact that is what the norm is. I won't tip for bad service, nor do I tip coffee makers. People who work HARD deserve a tip. Making a cup of coffee is not hard, nor is taking someones order hard. Going above and beyond that is what makes someone deserving of a tip. If that makes me cheap, well then I guess I am, but I would rather be cheap then be someones sugardaddy, which is what it sounds like you are. If you tip 20-30% for no reason, you are a mark, and I will laugh at people like yourself all day long.

BTW, you also seem like one of those people who likes to tip big, and let EVERYONE know you tip big. Props for that!!!

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree overall (for restaurants, etc.) except for good service I go closer to 20% (usually 20% rounded down slightly). For great service I sometimes go even higher. For OK service I go 15% or a tad less. For truly poor service I a good bit tip less than that.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly my standard restaurant tipping style, however for bad service, they will get less than 10%, I am sorry, I am not paying to go to a restaurant for bad service

[BeerMoney]

Shouldn't it depend on the size of the girls tits that is serving you?

[MMMMMM]

"Shouldn't it depend on the size of the girls tits that is serving you?"

Er, I can only tip so much, you know;-)

[MMMMMM]

I agree that truly lousy service deserves little to no tip.

[Slacker13]

You are certainly quick to jump in and defend the non tipper.
[ QUOTE ]
which is what it sounds like you are. If you tip 20-30% for no reason, you are a mark, and I will laugh at people like yourself all day long.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a mark? It's apparent I just make much more money than you and can afford to tip. I tip well, I can more than afford to. I have many friends who do the same. It's the way we are. We were all in the business and in the business you take care of one another. When my bar opens, those people I tip good will be coming to my plcae and spending money, bringing in people etc... Even if I go to Denny's in Orlando I tip well, even knowing I will never see that person again.

[ QUOTE ]
I won't tip for bad service

[/ QUOTE ]
So, if a waitress doesn't get your bisquits and gravy to you quick enough you feel she does not deserve a tip? Ever think maybe the person in the kitchen is at fault.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, you also seem like one of those people who likes to tip big, and let EVERYONE know you tip big. Props for that!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
No, not at all as a matter of fact I am the exact opposite. But the next time your over here cleaning my car I will make sure to blurt out how much I give you.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a mark? It's apparent I just make much more money than you and can afford to tip. I tip well, I can more than afford to. I have many friends who do the same. It's the way we are. We were all in the business and in the business you take care of one another. When my bar opens, those people I tip good will be coming to my plcae and spending money, bringing in people etc... Even if I go to Denny's in Orlando I tip well, even knowing I will never see that person again.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for not only pointing out you tip very well, but that you also make lots of money. I am starting to get a good picture of the kind of person you are. Listen I will say this: You are a [censored] mark. Its true, you tip well over the norm for no other reason that you work in the industry. I am sure it makes you feel good to tip the peons well, it probably makes you feel grounded, and one of the fellas. Well go ahead and try to buy their admiration with your huge tips. They see right through you though, and when you tip them well for average service it makes them think that they can treat everyone else like that or worse and still get tips. You are akin to a parent spoling their bad kids.

[ QUOTE ]
So, if a waitress doesn't get your bisquits and gravy to you quick enough you feel she does not deserve a tip? Ever think maybe the person in the kitchen is at fault.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course thats possible, and if the kitchen is slow, I would like the waiter to come out and say so. That way I know their will be a delay.... thats what good waiters do, the bad ones could give a [censored], and won't tell you. I realize that its not always the waiters fault, but unfortunately for them, they are the only represenatave I encounter from that establishment, so its up to them to make things right. Honesty gets you farther than lying or ignoring a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
But the next time your over here cleaning my car I will make sure to blurt out how much I give you.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have the be the classiest ass hole I have ever met.

[BeerMoney]

Slacker, no one cares that you make a lot of money. It's gross to talk about your income like that. You're embarrassing yourself. Stop giving yourself such a pat on the back for tipping well.

These tip jars are becoming a friggin' epidemic! How in the F**K can a chain-business like Winchell's or Dunkin' Donuts allow employees to do this (I don't drink coffee, so I've never been to Starbucks)? I wonder if the owners of these establishments always know tip jars are being placed next to their cash registers, since you don't find these tip jars at every location (winchell's for example, I probably encounter a tip jar at about 1 in 7 locations, maybe less)?

I used to automatically tip when I started seeing these tip jars, but after not getting a 'Thank You' a good percentage of the time, I started thinking twice. Now my tipping at a donut shop (or wherever I see a tip jar) is becoming a rarity.

The only tip jar I always hit is at a deli I've been going to for about five years (and they've only caught on to this tip-jar sh** about nine months ago). They have the best damn Italian sub I've ever tasted and I'm hooked, okay there I admit it...I'M HOOKED!!! They make it a special way for me too: substitute this for that, these condements only, extra mayo, no tomatoes, etc..., it's a pain in the ass for them I know. So strictly out of a sense of obligation I pay the extortion money!

_iL douché

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
Slacker, no one cares that you make a lot of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I don't give a sh!t who cares or doesn't care. I didn't say it to brag. Anyone who knows me will definitely say I am the last person who will brag or flaunt money. I said it because Salt pissed me off and for some reason I have to defend that I am a good tipper. I tipped this way when I didn't have money. I can guarantee I get more for my tipping, you two just cannot figure that out. I tip a bartender 30-40% I can guarantee the next time I come in I get what would have been an 80$ bar tab reduced to $30-40. That's the way it works. I also shouldn't have to explain to you that these people aren't making $20 an hour. Here in Florida they make $2.13 and hour and I know of very few bartenders and wait staff that are pulling down more than $500 per week.

Salt, you a psychologist? You draw a lot of conclusions from a post. Did you even read the previous posts between him and I or did you just feel compelled to defend someone who is cheap? He presented information that I know for a fact is wrong in an attempt to defend the reason why he does not like to tip.

Besides this is the post I had responded to from Eihli
[ QUOTE ]
Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while and totally untrue.



Salt, You attacked me first, remember?

[ QUOTE ]
I am, but I would rather be cheap then be someones sugardaddy, which is what it sounds like you are. If you tip 20-30% for no reason, you are a mark, and I will laugh at people like yourself all day long.
BTW, you also seem like one of those people who likes to tip big, and let EVERYONE know you tip big. Props for that!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for not only pointing out you tip very well, but that you also make lots of money. I am starting to get a good picture of the kind of person you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven’t even a clue who I am. I am the kinda of guy who does a lot for charity, I give back. I am also the kind of guy who can recognize a waitress who works all damn day to make $60. I am also the guy who came to florida with $35 in my pocket and have earned my way. I am also the kind of guy who if you get in my face I am going to take exactly Zero [censored] from you.

Frankly, I cannot understand why I must defend myself for tipping. It's actually idiotic.

This is the last post I am making on this matter, I feel like I am talking to someone from Mayberry. If you don't want to tip don't tip, just don't get alarmed when you find an unknown object in your Salad the next to you eat.
Flame away!

[Oski]

Hey, I'm sticking up for Slacker here. If you haven't "been in the industry" you just might not understand. I was a bartender, and I know EXACTLY where the guy is coming from.

If you work for tips, and do a good job, its great to have someone acknowledge it. I tried to be a real pro at bartending, and I greatly appreciated getting acknowledged. I studied a lot of books on alcohol, and could explain how the different ones were made, how they tasted, etc. I DIDN'T have to do that, but I took pride in my job.

I also kept up on current events and could hold a good conversation. People appreciate that, and I got noticed.

When I see someone in the service industry, I start by giving them the benefit of the doubt, and give good tips. If the service is poor, I let them know, and give then a chance to shape up. (Berkeley has some of the worst service in the world...I gave this woman 5 cents once, because she made my dinner a miserable experience and had a horrible attitude).

If someone is good, or exceptional, I will tip very well and seek out their service in the future.

Really, its not that complicated.

[Oski]

Starbucks is a little differenct animal. The workers actually make pretty good money and get benefits. If you tip at Starbucks, you should tip at McDonalds - its not like you are getting a special order, or special service.

Near my house, there is a Starbucks, two buildings down from a supermarket which has its own Starbucks. The Starbucks in the market, does not allow tips, because that would be unfair to the other store employees.

So, since I do not really feel a Starbuck's barista deserves a tip, I go to the one in the market.

[daryn]

slacker, here's my respectful take:


it's great that you make a lot of money and you take care of people in the form of tips, and i have no problem with that. why would i?

the thing is, you seem to have a problem with other people who decide to tip less than you or not tip at all. i think it's a personal preference issue. nobody should be forced to tip just because society says so. if they do, then tipping loses it's real value, as a reward for good service and hard work. if everyone tips just because, then service could decline among certain workers because they know they're getting tipped anyway.

i see no problem with people tipping based on service, that seems intelligent to me. i also see no problem with people overtipping and tipping "just because".

i tip when i go out to a restaurant, usually around 20% but definitely less if the service is terrible, and i don't mean slow food service, but sometimes you can tell the waitress/waiter just doesn't care. that's the kind of terrible service i'm talking about. i also tip for things like valet parking, haircuts, hotel maids, bartenders, etc. but i really do think the dunkin donuts/starbucks tip cups are a little ridiculous. it's like they just want to get some extra pay for nothing. hey, i can understand why they're doing it, who wouldn't? but i'm just not going to contribute to it.

why stop at coffee shops? why doesn't everyone have a tip cup at work? you should tape a $5 bill to your garbage cans every week for the garbage men, or leave a fiver on your power meter for the guy who comes to check them for the electric company. you see what i mean? it gets stupid after a while.

[Oski]

Larry David has a couple of funny takes on tipping in Curb Your Enthusiasm.

[daryn]

i have just started watching this. i have hbo on demand so i watched the whole 1st and 2nd season recently. which episode is it from?

speaking of this series, how many seasons are there? it's pretty funny. the last one i saw was i think the one where they were going to some baptism in monterey.

[Oski]

He did it in 4 episodes. In the first and last season (last episode) he had almost identical rifts about tipping bellhops and hotel people; he had a Christmas show about tipping his maid, gardner, and going to his country club to tip the staff; he had a show about tipping the waiter captain.

I don't know how many seasons there were.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
And I don't give a sh!t who cares or doesn't care. I didn't say it to brag. Anyone who knows me will definitely say I am the last person who will brag or flaunt money. I said it because Salt pissed me off and for some reason I have to defend that I am a good tipper.

[/ QUOTE ]
you certainly seem like a person who flaunts your money. I never asked how much you made, you told me. You for some reason ASSumed I don't make very much money and that I am cheap because I am not a sucker(ie tip well for no reason, which you are). I NEVER said I don't tip, I said I will not tip well if the service sucks. Apparently this revelation is to much for someone in "the industry", well tough [censored]!

[ QUOTE ]
I can guarantee I get more for my tipping, you two just cannot figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh so, before you tipped because you were in the industry, but now you do it to "get" stuff. Please spare me the pious BS you spit earlier about tipping because people get paid jack.

[ QUOTE ]
Salt, you a psychologist?

[/ QUOTE ] NO
[ QUOTE ]
Did you even read the previous posts between him and I

[/ QUOTE ] Yes
[ QUOTE ]
did you just feel compelled to defend someone who is cheap?

[/ QUOTE ] Cheap according to you, rational minded to just about everyone else.
[ QUOTE ]
Salt, You attacked me first, remember?

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you want to act like the victim here? you attacked BusterStacks first for no reason and I defended his position. You are clearly the one here who lakes perspective, you really need to open your eyes. They choose to work there, they know how little it pays, they know how crappy the enviroment is, I truely don't feel sorry for them. If they work hard and serve their patrons well, then they earned a GOOD tip, otherwise I am sorry, they get average.

[ QUOTE ]
You haven’t even a clue who I am. I am the kinda of guy who does a lot for charity, I give back. I am also the kind of guy who can recognize a waitress who works all damn day to make $60. I am also the guy who came to florida with $35 in my pocket and have earned my way. I am also the kind of guy who if you get in my face I am going to take exactly Zero [censored] from you.


[/ QUOTE ]
wow!

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't want to tip don't tip,

[/ QUOTE ] Do me a favor since I am such a cheap guy, tell me of one time I said I don't tip waiters/waitresses/bartenders..... then maybe i will give you a tip.....actually here it is... Pull that [censored] stick out of your self righteous ass.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I tip a bartender 30-40% I can guarantee the next time I come in I get what would have been an 80$ bar tab reduced to $30-40. That's the way it works.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhere in this thread you said you're opening a bar, right?

[MMMMMM]

"I tip a bartender 30-40% I can guarantee the next time I come in I get what would have been an 80$ bar tab reduced to $30-40."

Just curious: after you get the reduction, do you tip 30%-40% on what would have been the original price or on the reduced amount. Also, how profitable is this maneuver overall? And is this something Clarkmeister, Ulysses and Ed should try in Vegas on their next few excursions?

[Vehn]

This is only a regular customer/bartender thing. I believe this has been discussed here in the past. But the gist of it is basically you may get a slight discount on your overall bar tab but the "point" is the bartender gets most of the money not the bar.

[MMMMMM]

Right, I got that part, I was just wondering how profitable a deal it typically is for the consumer.

A) almost negligible

B) a fair bit

C) nothing to sneeze at

D) a cool deal

E) what a deal!!!

Don't forget to include the initial costs of paling up the bartender and overtipping as you become a "regular"--a process which shouldn't take too long if you tip as Slacker suggests.

[Vehn]

My dad has this deal going with a bunch of the local bars (it helps that he's an alcoholic) and I get the impression it saves him like 10-20% if that.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
"I tip a bartender 30-40% I can guarantee the next time I come in I get what would have been an 80$ bar tab reduced to $30-40."

Just curious: after you get the reduction, do you tip 30%-40% on what would have been the original price or on the reduced amount. Also, how profitable is this maneuver overall? And is this something Clarkmeister, Ulysses and Ed should try in Vegas on their next few excursions?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny, he's bragging about how much he tips, but on the other hand he's saying it saves him money, so really rich boy tips big to save big. What a douchebag.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
What a douchebag.

[/ QUOTE ] He likes to be on his soapbox as well.

[MMMMMM]

I don't even frequent bars really, but it seems a kinda neat way to save money if you don't mind colluding with the bartender to rip off the owner a bit. Actually, in a way he's sort of promoting the same kind of activity to take place at his own establishment in return. I think his idea overall is to get the money and goodwill flowing along with the booze because he's in the bar business and the camaraderie will bring in more business. It's probably a very effective marketing approach. Also, if a customer using his approach only saves 10-20% overall by sharing the "discounts" with the bartender, the owner can overlook this if he's doing a good business since booze is such a high markup item anyway.

If he tips big elsewhere (especially geographically), where he doesn't get much benefit then it would seem he just likes the style of tipping big.

I'm a bit curious too about how bars manage the risk of lawsuits nowadays. I can't imagine that bartenders actually cut people off when they are around .10; a person would probably have to be more drunk than that to be cut off. Yet a drunk driving death lawsuit can ruin a bar. Do they buy special insurance for this or do they just take their chances and instruct the bartenders not to serve the obviously smashed?

[adios]

I've come around to your way of thinking on minimum wage.

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
The minimum wage is a total joke as nobody can make a living on it anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why consummer staples produced cheaply are vital in that lower income households can maintain a better standard of living. What protectionism does is raise the prices of many of these goods that are produced offshore. So when labor unions start hollering about their jobs being exported, they're pandering for subsidies part of which will be paid by lower income households. Then in order to squelch dissent and maintain their constituency, the big government folks seek to raise taxes and re-distribute income to these lower income households making these households ever more dependent on big government.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I think his idea overall is to get the money and goodwill flowing along with the booze because he's in the bar business and the camaraderie will bring in more business.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how it could bring in that much business. If you tip a bartender well with the intention of getting your tab lowered, all that you are encouraging is for them to come to your establishment and do the same. The minute boost you might get from that person coming to your bar as a result of your big tip is so small its insignificant. I could only see this being a plus if you were just a frequent patron to a bar or retaurant, and not an owner.

[Bump-en-Stein]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't even frequent bars really, but it seems a kinda neat way to save money if you don't mind colluding with the bartender to rip off the owner a bit. Actually, in a way he's sort of promoting the same kind of activity to take place at his own establishment in return. I think his idea overall is to get the money and goodwill flowing along with the booze because he's in the bar business and the camaraderie will bring in more business. It's probably a very effective marketing approach. Also, if a customer using his approach only saves 10-20% overall by sharing the "discounts" with the bartender, the owner can overlook this if he's doing a good business since booze is such a high markup item anyway.



[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker really suffers with its Affiliate program and rake rebates.

Sometimes you have to "pay" for a loyal customer base. Slacker is obviously "in the know" and takes advantage. Good for him, the rest of you should go to hell. You really think a bar owner does not know about this? Get real, its part of any bar's social convention.

The reality of the situation is usually a bit different than what is worked out on paper.

[Ulysses]

In general, it's just good business for bartenders to give regulars a free round every now and again. People like it. They bring their friends in, come in more often, etc. Owners like that. Bartenders like it, 'cause they make a little extra tip money.

But then, some bartenders start charging half - $50 for a $100 tab. And the customer, instead of tipping $20, tips $30-40. That's $90 instead of $120 for the customer, $30-40 instead of $20 for the bartender, and $50 instead of $100 for the owner. This can have a real impact on the business. Especially when the bartender starts charging nothing and the customer leaves him $50.

Same thing w/ "industry comps." It's common practice for people from different establishments to get comped stuff at other places. And that's fine on the bottom line. But what often happens is that soon it's not just the bartender from the restaurant next door coming over for a free drink, it's him w/ 6 of his buddies. And now you have your bartender throwing a party. The other bartender leaves him a big tip, and next time the party is at the other bar. This can easily become a significant hit on the bottom line.

[MMMMMM]

Well, if the bartender brings some buddies, it could help, just as getting a local reputation as a "good guy" can help bring in business.

[ElSapo]

A few thoughts on the topic...

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be fooled by that bullshit about them making 2.15 or whatever an hour. If they don't get enough tips to make their hourly pay equal to at least minimum wage, then their employer ha to put up the rest so they will always at least make the 5.15.

[/ QUOTE ]



Which is the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while and totally untrue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Slacker, to the best of my knowledge this is technically true. Employers are actually required to ensure that waiters/waitresses make minimum wage. And so if they do report that they made less than this, the employer does make up the difference.

Now, granted, this basically never happens. And if it does happen, the waiter/waitress needs to find a new restaurant with a quickness because the reason to work in restaurants is because if you are willing to work your ass off and give good service, then you can make decent money.

I worked in restaurants for several years. I have many friends now who are waiters/waitresses/barternders. It is the hardest job I ever did, and people in this profession are oftentimes running themselves ragged.

I tip. Frankly, I overtip. I overtip because service is good, because I like the person, because they have a hard job, because I feel like it, because whatever. However, I also maintain - even from an ex-waiter's standpoint - that tipping is not mandatory. You don't want to tip? Fine. You should get the same service as everyone else.

I don't know why people get all worked up over this topic (it's even got me responding now). Tip what you want to; don't tip if you don't want to. Simple.

But back to the paycheck issue... The check is designed to cover taxes on the tips. Absolutely. But it also does ensure the employees are making at least minimum wage.

If a waiter/waitress/bartender has a good week, their check should essentially read $0.00. Small checks are normal. This is not where their real wage is coming from. But it does ensure an income of at least minimum wage.

If I'm wrong on this issue somehow, I'd appreciate it if someone pointed me to the right source. I've brought this same point up in this debate before, and I'd hate to keep throwing out incorrect information.

ElSapo

An afterthought -- Screw the Reservoir Dogs references. This isn't exact but: "I tip everyone, that's my philosophy. Actually, I overtip. Overtipping is my philosophy." --Steve Martin, My Blue Heaven