When to quit

[Greeksquared]

I am writing this because I really think I need to quit playing...and I want to tell my story..maybe this will make me feel better. I have only been playing since March of this year and have played alot. I graduated college in December and am going back to school in the fall for a graduate degree. So, I had alot of time on my hand. I majored in math and naturally found poker interesting. I began to read and research online for many hours. I read alot about poker before I was ready to put my money up for grabs. I started out by playing the low limit on pacific poker because I thought that would be the easiest. I did not fare so well and lost my 100 bucks rather quickly. I then decided to move my money to party poker and get their free bonus of 100 bucks. I started playing NL with my free 100 and did very well. I mainly played ring games and sometimes the $10 sngs. I moved almost straight up to a bankroll of 2400 in just a couple of months. I almost never had a losing streak. I had begun to play the 50 sngs on party and had done well on those too. But, this is where the story ends. My bankroll has now gone down..way down. Im now down to 1200. It just seemed like I had the most unbelievable horrible luck. The absolute craziest bad beats would haunt me over and over and over again. People were crushing my big pairs with sets. I did not change my style of play, I just got beat continuously. I really don't win anymore. If I play 3 hours of ring games and make 12 bucks I am so happy now....just that I havent lost. Everytime I make a little money I just give it right back. So..anyways..I am thinking of quitting. But I know I am good at this game...unless my initial near flawless run was all luck. I did not get that many bad beats at all during my first two months. Maybe now is normal..just lots of bad beats. I rarely slow play and still get beat badly. It just seems so hard to make any money. I am just so puzzled how my luck could change so quick and stay so bad. I am thinking about quitting. Playing poker is taking up a pretty big portion of the day and now that I am not winning it just sucks.

Anyways..thats my story. I think I am going to atleast stop playing for a couple months...the losing is just ridiculous.

So if anyone has advice or comments I would really appreciate that.

Thanks

[Joe826]

"I am just so puzzled how my luck could change so quick and stay so bad."

You're a math major? In all seriousness, poker is a game of swings. It's something we all learn and have to get use to. It could be that you got off running hot and you're not as flawless as you thought or maybe it's just that you've been sucked out on like crazy. Most likely it's a bit of both. If you don't like the swings and don't feel like you can deal with them then I would recommend quiting as well. FWIW, they get easier to take after you've encountered a few.

[asdf1234]

Losing streaks are common and can last a very long time, even for good players (you should know this as a math major /images/graemlins/cool.gif). If you can't handle them (lots of people can't), you should probably quit, as some of them can get awfully harsh, but if you truly are a good player, keep at it, it will surely turn around. Hope your luck improves!

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Losing streaks are common and can last a very long time, even for good players (you should know this as a math major /images/graemlins/cool.gif). If you can't handle them (lots of people can't), you should probably quit, as some of them can get awfully harsh, but if you truly are a good player, keep at it, it will surely turn around. Hope your luck improves!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, ASDF dropped what was it, 2 or 3 racks last night??? And he pretends to be a good player... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just kidding.

I really don't know much about sit and goes.

1200 is 300 bb for 2/4, you should be fine. play 2/4, build it up and go from there. (this is assuming you're a good player. I really of course do not know.)

most players do over estimate how good they are. I know I used to. Now I know enough to know that really, I'm not very good at all. All it takes though is being better then the compitition, and hey, the competition isn't too good on party.

[Yeknom58]

First and foremost just like 99.9999999% of all players you're not nearly as good as you think you are. I think I'm great but sometimes I'll look back at some hand histories and I really wonder how "that guy" played a hand so badly and low and behold the player was me. So somehow the greatest player in the world, ME, played a hand like doodoo.....but the greatest player wouldn't play a hand like that....hmmm 2+2 does not equal 4 if you know what I mean.

So what I'm trying to say is that there's a good chance you're a losing player who just got really lucky. I don't know how many hands you play in a week but a relatively new player running 200 bucks into 2400 in a few months sure seems lucky to me.

"Hey no way was I just lucky, I'm a winning player, I see these people playing crap, I'm tighter than that, I must be a winner"

Okay fine you're a winning player...even the best player in the world can have some brutal losing streaks. So lets say you play 3-6 limit and have a pretty regular bankroll of about 1800 bucks. Pretty much all the semi serious players have experienced a 100 BB+ losing streak so thats 600 bucks or more in what seems like an instant.

So if you can't handle the streaks then you should take your 1100 dollar profit and run.

[lacky]

If you read lots online, you must have come across the recommended bankroll for sng's of 30 entrees. For $55's that's $1650. The reason for that bankroll requirement is the average GOOD player at $55 sng's can expect to have losing runs almost that bad. The bankroll allows you to barely survive! I have always tried to have a bankroll way over the minimum just because it's so depressing watching it dwindle away to almost nothing. At $1200 down there may not be anything wrong. You just got started with a great run up and a bad run down instead of the constant swings that are more the norm. I had 9 loses in 10 days at 15/30, going down $4500 from my high. Then tonight I made back $3850. Unfortunately that’s just normal. Have confidence you will get through, but use the down turns to reevaluate your game and find areas to improve. Nothing motivates learning more than a nasty down turn!

[RydenStoompala]

What everyone else said, ditto. I would add that there are many new players (less than a year, normally) who I have run into at B&M cardrooms who are dreaming. I've been told how they are raking thousands a month out of their online account(playing in 3-6 games, no less), because they are such good players and it's "so easy." I watch them play live and know they are void of the clairvoyance they think they have. Six months later, they're asking your question. The answer is: if you can handle the long, painful swings, then no, dont quit. It's a great game. You've studied math; you know the answer to your question.

[sin808]

while it may be just a streak as others have said I'd like to point out one thing from your post. You said you started off playing low limits, did well, moved up, lost money..and you say you didn't change your game. That might be part of the problem. The same game that won for you at the low limits won't work in the higher limits. Might be something to look at.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
If I play 3 hours of ring games and make 12 bucks I am so happy now....just that I havent lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing a ring game of 3/6 of lower than this is a reasonably good session.


[ QUOTE ]
Anyways..thats my story. I think I am going to atleast stop playing for a couple months...the losing is just ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't handle the losing then I would tend to agree that poker isn't the game for you.

[dogmeat]

In my opinion a player should quit when they no longer enjoy the game. Sounds simple, right? Poker presents the same challenges as many sports. In baseball a player (take Ichiro for example) may hit poorly for a while (batted .230 in April) and follow it with a hot streak (batted .400+ in May). At the end of the season he will be batting around .320 and be happy, but he didn't quit in April when his "luck" was bad. He adjusted, became more patient, took a few less chances and got back to basics. Poker players should do the same. The game didn't change, you have simply experienced some of the highs and lows that are present in EVERY player's daily/weekly/monthly statistics.

A good player enjoys the game for what it is: A challenge that can be rewarding even when you don't win pots, and a money making experience for about 5% of its enthusiasts. If you want to be part of the 5%, learn to survive the waves of wins and losses.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[BusterStacks]

All you can do is make correct plays. Don't underestimate how much of this game is luck... and EXPERIENCE.

[Greeksquared]

I really appreciate all the advice. I think I wrote that post more out of frustration than anything. I did say I was a good player, but I probably should have said I am a good player compared to the folks that play on party at the NL .5/1 and at the $10 sng. These are the limits I am playing at now that my bankroll has dropped. I only played the 50 sngs when I got the 1500 area and thought that they were just as easy to beat if not easier than the 10 dollar sng. I think my biggest flaw is keeping my mouth shut. I hate when I lose and I usually bash the person who took me out. This just seems to get me into more bad beats. My anger is a problem and I swear it gives me bad karma.

Anyways..I obviously would not have written anything if I had just come off a winning session. I always feel very confident everytime I play. Basically I am an idiot and want to win everytime.

Thanks again.

[Cry Me A River]

[ QUOTE ]

I think my biggest flaw is keeping my mouth shut. I hate when I lose and I usually bash the person who took me out. This just seems to get me into more bad beats. My anger is a problem and I swear it gives me bad karma.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's called being on tilt and you've probably just identified your biggest leak. (Surely you're familiar with the term?)

If you loose your temper when you take a bad beat, leave the table(s) immediately, logout, and don't play any more for at least several hours if not the rest of the day.

[asdf1234]

[ QUOTE ]
ASDF dropped what was it, 2 or 3 racks last night???

[/ QUOTE ]

2.4 racks. The best part was when 42o caught 2 pair on the turn. Well, maybe it was the J7 calling along with bottom pair and hit trips on the river. Or maybe it was the multiple times I had KK or AA with 20+ bets in preflop and lost ALL of them. Then again, the gigantic ass calling my raise with 62o then calling down with bottom pair was pretty good too...

[asdf1234]

Only the .4 racks can be attributed to tilt, by the way.

[DMBFan23]

This is a great post overall, I think its important to realize why you play...and to realize that 90% favorite means you take a bad beat 10% of the time. I got really pissed when I got sucked out last night, and it was very very bad form. should have read this post first.

[Blarg]

Sounds like your emotions are definitely going into your game, undoubtedly not for the better. There's no way you're at your best that way, and poker is a game you really should play at your best -- it is real money, after all. It's like -- would you try for the olympic gold with a hangover?

You ran your $100 into 2400 so quickly it's like a miracle, so I think you need to be sure your expectations for the future are realistic. Not only will you have extended bad luck sometimes, but even your good luck is unlikely to be as good as what you have experienced. The one big bet per hour standard that people talk about seems to be a good one to me. At your bankroll and level of experience, that won't be much money per hour. Unless you're playing at games too big for your bankroll.

Basically, it sounds like you may be setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect too much luck or just too much reward for good play. Poker is a slow process, and with a small bankroll, even slower. It's a grind, especially when you factor in the losing sessions.

Basically, you have to set up the conditions for yourself to be happy. That's up to you. Or -- you'll make yourself miserable. That includes patience and an ego that knows you're going to lose and lose badly sometimes, and that can pull you up and make you play with a good attitude anyway. If you can only keep your temper or have a positive attitude when you're winning, poker's not your game. Heck, maybe nothing's your game?

Because losing IS part of the game, even for the best players in the world.

[MicroBob]

your posts indicate to me that you are probably not playing a winning game....and clearly you are extremely prone to tilt.

if you are losing and can't figure out why it is more likely attributable to leaks than it is to bad luck....although unlucky runs do happen.


i seriously wonder about someone who insists they are a winning player in one sentence and then talks about cussing out the suck-out artists in another.


on some of your iffy-er calls did you post the hand-history in the NL or SNG forum to see what others thought about the play??
there are some really good players around here who can help you analyze a hand that you previously thought you had played perfectly.


some of your beats may not have been as bad as you thought.