Party $15-$30.. How bad is this?

[Buckshot]

Here's a hand that was asked to be posted. Prior to this hand a player asked if I'm the same namesake on 2+2 and I replied, "Maybe."

The game is 7 handed. UTG just posted (HA!) and checked his option. The questioneer, next to act, raised and was cold called immediately by the next player. The CO folded and I, on the button, have A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Do you call, fold or raise? I ended up calling. I'm 50-50 on reraising.

The blinds called then UTG sprung to life with a reraise. Questioneer capped and the next player called.

I thought. . . . . and thought . . . and folded.

~stephen

[Nightwish]

I think we already had this thread. The correct action when an unknown raises in EP and another unknown cold-calls is to muck your AQo.

[hutz]

A presumed 2+2er raises UTG2 and unknown UTG3 cold-calls and it's on you with AQo. I am underwhelmed with the prospect of 3-betting but I am even less "whelmed" with calling. I think this is a situation where folding is your best alternative, 3-betting is next best, and calling is worst. After you call and it's two bets back to you, I think the fold is still the best option.

[BacMan]

I'm not a $15-$30 player, but I don't call with AQo for 2 bets with an UTG raiser.

[steveyz]

At least you did the right thing by folding when it was capped back to you, but you should have folded initially anyways.

[Steve Giufre]

Im not sure I agree here. The fact that there is an extra blind out there makes the case for three betting a little stronger. Unless the twoplustwoer is very tight, I might three bet here. But I really dont think a coldcall is that horrible only because with three blinds left to act you'll probably have 3 or four to the flop.

Once it's two more back to you, I'm still gonna call, but only because of the way you described the action. On Party, if a guy posts UTG, he's probably a total moron. So why should you give him credit for a real hand after he checks his option, and then three bets it when it's back to him? And what did you expect the twoplustwoer to do? I would cap everytime in that spot, hoping to get you out, thinking UTG probabaly had a random hand. I would not fold my hand for two more bets in that situation.

[Turning Stone Pro]

But sometimes I think you and I are the only long-term PP winners on the site.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not sure I agree here. The fact that there is an extra blind out there makes the case for three betting a little stronger. Unless the twoplustwoer is very tight, I might three bet here. But I really dont think a coldcall is that horrible only because with three blinds left to act you'll probably have 3 or four to the flop.

Once it's two more back to you, I'm still gonna call, but only because of the way you described the action. On Party, if a guy posts UTG, he's probably a total moron. So why should you give him credit for a real hand after he checks his option, and then three bets it when it's back to him? And what did you expect the twoplustwoer to do? I would cap everytime in that spot, hoping to get you out, thinking UTG probabaly had a random hand. I would not fold my hand for two more bets in that situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with you, and agree with everyone else.

Fold. Be done with it. AQo to a near UTG raise is an easy muck. I don't care if you *think* he's isolating utg. He *may* be, but I really doubt he's doing it that lightly. If he was say late position 3 betting would be correct, but there are so many players left to act...

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
But sometimes I think you and I are the only long-term PP winners on the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

You haven't ever offered any insight into a hand that was your own without getting completely blasted by the best minds on this forum. I find your audacity astounding.
-James

[Turning Stone Pro]

James, take a deep breath, you'll be ok. Bad day at work?

[James282]

Great day at work. I(like everybody here) just think you are an idiot and am waiting for you to contribute something to a thread besides "I agree" followed by some arrogant quip.
-James

[Nate tha' Great]

Although it pains me to agree with Turning Stone Pro, I think this is an easy 3-bet with the Button. The fact that the game is 7-handed - why has nobody mentioned this! - and the fact that there is a UTG poster, changes the dynamic quite radically from what it would be otherwise. 3-bet. Not even close, IMHO.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. Be done with it. AQo to a near UTG raise is an easy muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

This shouldn't be treated as a UTG raise. It's a middle position raise. The game is 7-handed, with bonus blind money.

[Diplomatdcm]

I agree, and i also think that everyone is giving the cold caller too much respect. A cold call in this game means two cards which probably suited, not a big hand. I think it is an easy 3 bet and a very bad call. Further I think the cap may be misrepresentive of the good players hand. Many players will limp rereaise suited crap and what not. So a UTG poster who limp reraises does not engender much respect. So, as was said earlier the cap may be a little light.
Dave

[davidross]

I would have folded to the original raise, so I think folding to 2 more bets is sensible.

[davidross]

I think 3 betting is reckless here. You need to hit it pretty hard to feel confident about playing hard post-flop.
Even 7 handed an UTG raise is pretty strong. The UTG post is probably a mistake, with 3 empty seats he clicked auto post 1 hand too soon.I've done that a few times myself.

Easy fold.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 3 betting is reckless here. You need to hit it pretty hard to feel confident about playing hard post-flop.
Even 7 handed an UTG raise is pretty strong. The UTG post is probably a mistake, with 3 empty seats he clicked auto post 1 hand too soon.I've done that a few times myself.

Easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1's raise here is the equivalent of a UTG raise at a 6-max table. I 3-bet with AQo nearly 100% of the time in a 6-max game, and that hand shows a huge profit for me. The fact that Hero has the Button here, and that there's extra dead money, and that UTG+1 has an incentive to isolate the UTG poster, changes it from not-super-close to not-at-all-close.

[builtiz]

I definetly agree with what was said here.

3-betting is an option, but I rarely would do it from the big blind.

Your not eliminating any players, you have bad position and a complete maniac on your left that will probably call down with any pair.

With that said I would just call the raise and when the dumbass 3-bets and the original raiser caps I would still call to see a flop. I would tend to think the orig. raiser just raised because someone was stupid enough to post UTG. For some reason when people see dead money in the pot they think it gives them the chance to raise with any playable hand. When he caps you can probably put him on a pocket pair not necessarilly AA,KK,QQ although these might be a probable option you could be up against 77-JJ. Anyways it seems like a huge pot is going to be built and I would at least see what the flop brings and base the rest of my decisions after I saw it.

[Senor Choppy]

I'm siding with Nate, the game is somewhat short, you will probably have $25 in dead money in the pot by the flop, and the raising standards of the original raiser are definitely lower than they would be normally. I think 3 betting here is probably correct.

FWIW, I autofold AQo to raises normally without giving it a second thought. I usually err on the side of folding preflop if it's close, since I'm not as good at grinding out small edges with hands like 66 like some other posters here.

[builtiz]

Nevermind, your on the button, Easy 3-bet preflop!

[ActionBob]

I'd reraise here 100% of the time. I really wouldn't even think twice about this or think its all that tough a decision.

I'm pretty shocked about how many would even consider folding here.

-ActionBob

[ActionBob]

Fold. Be done with it. AQo to a near UTG raise is an easy muck.

It is?

-ActionBob

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. Be done with it. AQo to a near UTG raise is an easy muck.

It is?

-ActionBob

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ActionBob]

I better stop then.... or maybe not.

-ActionBob

[J_V]

You are right, 3 bet in your sleep. IMO anything less shows a serious lack of understanding of what is happening. Dead money, button, 7 handed game, Party Poker what more do you need to 3 bet AQo.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
You are right, 3 bet in your sleep. IMO anything less shows a serious lack of understanding of what is happening. Dead money, button, 7 handed game, Party Poker what more do you need to 3 bet AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll admit I overread the 7 handed part. Read it quickly and just missed it.

I often do have a lack of understanding of what is happening (seriously, not sarcastically.)

I was tought that in any decent game, 3 betting AQo against an UTG raise is reckless and a mistake. I can understand if he is super weak tight and will give up easy and your raise will get respect...or if he's super loose...

Short handed play is something I really should get more familiar with. 7 doesn't seem too short, though.

This is one of the hands I posted about AQo a long time ago, and when I generally stopped doing it. link here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=525386& Forum=All_Forums&Words=AQ&Searchpage=0&Limit=100&M ain=525386&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=5247&dat erange=1&newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=3&oldertyp e=m&bodyprev=#Post525386)

[ZeeJustin]

Easy 3 bet.
The 2 things most people aren't factoring in:
1) It's 7 handed
2) There's an extra big blind (note this also means that the Questioneer's raising standards will be somewhat looser than normal).

[J_V]

I 3-bet AQ or cold call much more often than I fold it on Party Poker. You should read the John Feeney AQ test. Most raisers aren't very tight. Only against tight raisers should you fold.

[Zele]

What's it like being a pro at the Turning Stone, anyway?

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy 3 bet.
The 2 things most people aren't factoring in:
1) It's 7 handed
2) There's an extra big blind (note this also means that the Questioneer's raising standards will be somewhat looser than normal).

[/ QUOTE ]

3) There's a cold caller.
That fact trumps 2), and 1) isn't even good news for AQo. Fold it.

[Ulysses]

3-bet pre-flop every time. Having messed that up, yes, fold it when it comes back capped.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
But sometimes I think you and I are the only long-term PP winners on the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someday El Diablo will win, then he too will have a new La-Z-Boy. However, with TSP dominating the games so soundly right now, El Diablo may have to stick to the .01-02 tables for the time-being.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO anything less shows a serious lack of understanding of what is happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. El Diablo would like to add that his head almost exploded while reading this thread.

[samdash]

Also if UTG is smart he may be raising with a weaker hand than normal to "steal" the extra money. Can't believe no one made this point yet - or maybe they did but I'm not reading every single post.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
But sometimes I think you and I are the only long-term PP winners on the site.

[/ QUOTE ]

can one week be counted as "long-term"? if so, add me to your long-term winners list /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Zele]

I'm pretty sure that IS what TSP meant. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif