The oh so Common All-in Frenzy at Level 1-3

[zephyr]

Comments and Suggestions Welcomed:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)

Hero (t1220)
MP3 (t760)
CO (t1025)
Button (t690)
SB (t565)
BB (t1480)
UTG (t415)
UTG+1 (t870)
MP1 (t975)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t60</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls t135, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises to t415 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t680</font>, Hero folds, SB calls t415 (All-In).

Flop: (t1840) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t1840) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t1840) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1840
<font color="green">Main Pot: t1425 (t1425), between SB, UTG and UTG+1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG+1 (t1425).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t300 (t300), between SB and UTG+1.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG+1 (t300).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 3: t115 (t115), returned to UTG+1.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Ad Qh (one pair, aces).
UTG shows Qd Qs (one pair, queens).
UTG+1 shows Tc Ts (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t1840. </font>

Ok, I have a few questions about this hand:

1) Was my preflop raise to 5XBB appropriate? Explain?
2) Assume that the SB does not call my re-raise, and that UTG+1 folds instead of re-raising. I would definetly call in this instance. Is this right?
3) Assume that the SB does call my re-raise, and that UTG+1 folds instead of re-raising. Now what? I'm leaning towards a call /images/graemlins/confused.gif
4) After I'm reraised by UTG and he's reraised by UTG+1 is it correct for me to assume that one of them holds AA or KK? (I have no reads on the players as it is early and I am multi-tabling).
5) I feel that my fold was 100% correct given all the imformation at the time. Any other feelings about this?
6) Assume I'm now holding AA, KK, QQ, AKs. Now what? ...(my answers, AA: push, KK: push, QQ: fold, AKs: fold).

I just wanted to post such a hand as they are reasonably common in the beggining stages of a low limit party SNG's.

Thanks in advance,

Zephyr

[Potowame]

Single table early I feel you did the right thing. Even if one of them has a smaller pair under 10s your still only even money, and hoping a A or K falls, if these guys want to move you up in the standings let them. good call,AA or KK take your chances.
Ring game I would have really thought about it, with that kinda money out there. Depending on thier play proir of course.

[zephyr]

Thanks Potowame,

Your response is appreciated. I don't want to be a sour poster here, but it seems that my posts never get more than one or two responses while....let's take Desdia for example, gets 50 responses arguing about how his girlfriend would play 99 on the bubble, or on how much you can make in a year by playing $200 + $15 SNG's. Am I doing something wrong /images/graemlins/confused.gif

But really, I don't mean to be rude or demanding, but I really need some help in this aspect of my game. Especially questions 2 &amp; 3, and how I would play QQ in this situation.

Thanks again, and don't be afraid to just tell me to shut up if I'm out of line, my girfriend seems to have mastered that one.

Zephyr

[David Steele]

I don't want to be a sour poster here, but it seems that my posts never get more than one or two responses

I am not sure that how much of a factor it is, but the "converter" method of posting a hand looks less attractive
to read through compared to composing by hand.

It is too bad the converter doesn't look nicer as it does provide accuracy and unbiased reporting.

One may read the converter posting but since there are less lines of analysis it is more work to jump in and compose a response.

D.

[La Brujita]

I think you should have made a pot sized raise preflop rather than the mini type raise to 150. The question is what are you trying to accomplish with the raise? I don't have a huge answer to that, but are you trying to build the pot limit the field etc?

The reason I don't have any huge answers is because I think a little bit like Goldilocks you need to be careful not to overplay AK early but at the same time not underplay AK early. You will miss the flop 2/3 of the time and I usually lead out betting when I miss three handed or less but in a multiway pot what are you going to do?

UTG limp reraising with qq is pretty odd but effective if the game was super loose. I would have called UTG if the next player didn't reraise. This is basically due to pot odds.

I would have guessed one of them held AA or KK as well.

As to your last question, I would fold AKs I almost never let go of QQ in these crazy games but I may have let it go here. I haven't played the $10 games in a long time, I am just going by the craziness of some of the $30 games.

Zephyr, I didn't take it as complaining, it can be very frustrating when you take the time to post and nobody responds.

[zephyr]

Thanks for the responses,

In response to Davids post, do others feel this way? I personally like the hand converter, but may be one of only a few who feel this way. I can see definite pros and cons to both the converter and hand reporting.

Thanks

[mosch]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Was my preflop raise to 5XBB appropriate? Explain?

[/ QUOTE ]
Your raise here is fine. There are lots of players left to act and you don't want to be pot-stuck if you're re-raised, but you also want to protect your hand. It's not quite a pot-sized bet, but in the early stages of a party SNG, your raise is getting called by UTG+1 anyway. In the later stages, or against decent opponents, you could justify a larger raise as an attempt to win the pot right there, but early in a party SNG, this is an unlikely result.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Assume that the SB does not call my re-raise, and that UTG+1 folds instead of re-raising. I would definetly call in this instance. Is this right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling this re-raise is a big gamble. The UTG limp-reraise usually indicates a large pair. If you call this raise, it's because you have reason to believe they're bluffing.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Assume that the SB does call my re-raise, and that UTG+1 folds instead of re-raising. Now what? I'm leaning towards a call

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. If UTG is still limp-reraising all-in, I still like a fold.

[ QUOTE ]
4) After I'm reraised by UTG and he's reraised by UTG+1 is it correct for me to assume that one of them holds AA or KK? (I have no reads on the players as it is early and I am multi-tabling).

[/ QUOTE ]
You can't put them on AA or KK specifically, given how nutty these things are. You can put them on a collection of hands that make for an easy fold though. (AA-JJ and AK are very likely).

[ QUOTE ]
5) I feel that my fold was 100% correct given all the imformation at the time. Any other feelings about this?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you had an easy fold, unless your goal was simply to GAMBOL!

[ QUOTE ]
6) Assume I'm now holding AA, KK, QQ, AKs. Now what? ...(my answers, AA: push, KK: push, QQ: fold, AKs: fold).

[/ QUOTE ]
AA: tap.
KK: tap.
QQ: fold
AK: fold

[Profit]

no, most want the coverted, much easier to read and skim.

[HajiShirazu]

Not getting involved in pots like this early accounts for a big portion of any good Party SNG player's ROI.

[Chief911]

when you are playing the 5's and 10's, I NEVER raise (More than 2xbb) unless I was prepared to call an All In. Because so many times it happens. And AK against multiple people in these lower buyin sng's is not a good play, unless you are a poor player.

Good fold, and wait for a better day.

Nick

[zephyr]

This has come up a couple of times. Just to make sure that we're all on the same page here this was a $30 SNG, which I still consider "low-limit". I doubt that this changes anything though, except maybe that a fold is even more in order here, eventhough I still believe it would be at the $10 level. Thanks for all of the input.

Zephyr

[CountDuckula]

I find the converter layout much easier to follow, myself. Regarding comments, I don't comment on hands all that much myself, because I feel that I still have a lot to learn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I think the number of comments a post draws has a lot to do with when it's posted and what others are being posted at the same time.

-Mike