A most unspectacular hand

Here's just a very typical hand and I'm not sure how to approach it. Nothing fancy here, but I think I need to master the basics here. Okay. I'm a somewhat new player in a loose 15-30 game.


Two limpers, I raise pocket tens, 2 calls behind and both blinds call.


Flop: J-8-8. Checked to me. Now what do the experts recommend here? I find it hard to navigate this type of mediocre hand. I checked and there was a bet after me with a call after him and a blind called. I had no idea where I was at. People love to take cards off, no one raised, and so I thought I'd just call one time and with the action leading behind me I thought I'd get a good sense of where I was at on the turn. That is, an 8 would probably check-raise if indeed someone was slowplaying. If someone called I could muck. Maybe he'd even check if it was just a position stab at the pot?


Turn: X. Now same bettor and everyone folds to me. Well, I wasn't convinced he had a J or 8 so decided to call him down. He did call 2 bets cold and I did check to him so I though I had set up the play to check-call him down as he could be betting any pocket pair, A-high, or just position.


River: X. Check, call. He had A-J suited.


I'm finding that I'm calling down too often with mediocre hands like this but what are my alternatives. I felt like I had created a situation where I was the sheriff here. But what if I had bet the flop? Do I want to bet and see if I get raised and then if anyone calls the raise I'll know better where I'm at? Or maybe I can even muck to one raise or take one off and save $45 or $60.


Joeflex

Right or wrong, I almost always (90% or more) bet the flop when I raise pre-flop.


With TT, I would have bet a flop of J88. If anybody calls after I show strength pre-flop and on the flop then I would probably check/fold on the turn unless I thought somebody was trying to steal the pot (or I got a 9 or T on the turn). But, I'm definitely not going to be a "sheriff".


In this situation, your badly beaten by either a J or 8. It's time to lay the hand down when somebody bets both the flop and turn.

Yes, that's why you bet. To get out overcards if you have the best hand and to find out if anyone may have you beat. If ever, you get raised on a hand like this, or even called for that matter, you will have a much better idea of where you're at and won't always have to call down, saving you money. If you don't give your opponents some idea of any strength that you have then you'll never know if they actually have something, or if they're just trying to take a pot away from you. Another benefit of aggressive play and a very good example of why not to play like a calling station.


Mike

Seven people see the bet for two bets each. The flop just cries out for a check raise from an 8, a jack, an overpair, or a hand like 9-10. That said, if you bet, a hand like AQ will probably fold. I think it is close between betting and check-calling.


On the turn, I'd fold (I'd keep going if a 7,9,10, or Q fell).

If I check a paired flop and someone bets, his range of hands is wide. If I bet the flop and someone calls or raises, his range of hands is much narrower. That's why I bet big pairs with one overcard on board. All other reasons pale.


Tommy

Bet the flop. How you play the turn will be much easier based on how your opponents responded to your flop bet. You put yourself in a bad situation where you really don't know where you stand.


Bruce

Would you raise a bet on the flop with the same hand to find out

where you stand?


D.

"Would you raise a bet on the flop with the same hand to find out where you stand?"


Major it-depends here. Sometimes I'd raise, like if there is no caller between me a wreckless bettor and there's one player behind me with probable overcards, stuff like that. Some of the info-gathering need is reduced because it's quite a bit different when a player bets into a field compared to when he bets after being checked to.


Tommy

Tommy, he say:


"If I check a paired flop and someone bets, his range of hands is wide."


I'd like to emphasize that "someone" part. Unless I'm mistaken, our hero had *six* opponents. Even assuming people are playing random hands, what are the chances that nobody has a jack or an eight? It seems that the more salient question is, "Do I have the implied odds to turn a ten and break a lot of hearts?" My suspicion is that the answer is "No."


It's a very reasonable raise preflop. But it didn't work (he got two cold callers and both blinds defended). I think checking and folding is an honorable approach here. Elsewhere, Tommy talked about pumping it preflop and then dumping it when the flop missed him. This feels like a missed flop.


That said, I don't think it's a sin to fling a bet out there if it's checked to you. Maybe you'll have one of those fortunate situations where nobody *does* have a J or an 8. And the draw that would most likely stay with you (T9) is somewhat less likely cause you're looking at two tens.


Depending on the players, your image, yada yada, I think you could bet the flop. But, (1) unless you pick up a draw or turn a miracle ten, then you're done, and (2) if you get raised, you don't have to call on the flop. In fact, if you get raised, and there's a cold call, then calling the raise would be nigh onto foolish.


But if you don't know the players and they don't know you, I think I'd check-fold on the flop. There will be other battles where you have more ammo.


Regards, Lee