I folded Aces!!!

[imcastleman]

Anybody think I was beat here. Festivus Pole is my opponent. This is most likely the first time I have folded Aces in a sit n go, but I did end up getting second through a lot of luck and aggressive play. Comments Please!!

***** Hand History for Game 680889363 *****
15/30 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 4229198) - Thu Jun 17 00:49:06 EDT 2004
Table Table 11131 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: katie324us (985)
Seat 2: imcastleman (1000)
Seat 3: zelong (985)
Seat 4: RULE22 (1030)
Seat 5: Mike618 (1000)
Seat 6: callkw (985)
Seat 7: FestivusPole (1055)
Seat 8: spyhard_spb (975)
Seat 9: Bluffn101 (955)
Seat 10: whalehead (1030)
whalehead posts small blind (10)
katie324us posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to imcastleman [ As, Ad ]
imcastleman calls (15)
zelong calls (15)
RULE22 raises (80) to 80
Mike618 folds.
callkw folds.
FestivusPole calls (80)
spyhard_spb folds.
Bluffn101 folds.
whalehead folds.
katie324us folds.
imcastleman calls (65)
zelong calls (65)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jc, 4h, 2c ]
imcastleman checks.
zelong checks.
RULE22 checks.
FestivusPole checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qc ]
imcastleman bets (250)
zelong calls (250)
RULE22 folds.
FestivusPole raises (975) to 975
FestivusPole is all-In.
imcastleman: I have AA
imcastleman folds.
zelong folds.
Creating Main Pot with $1820 with FestivusPole
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1820
Board: [ Jc 4h 2c Qc ]
katie324us balance 970, lost 15 (folded)
imcastleman balance 670, lost 330 (folded)
zelong balance 655, lost 330 (folded)
RULE22 balance 950, lost 80 (folded)
Mike618 balance 1000, didn't bet (folded)
callkw balance 985, didn't bet (folded)
FestivusPole balance 1820, bet 1055, collected 1820, net +765
spyhard_spb balance 975, didn't bet (folded)
Bluffn101 balance 955, didn't bet (folded)
whalehead balance 1020, lost 10 (folded)

[Jsb]

i would have reraised preflop. maybe even push, with a raise and a caller, you have a strong possibility of getting called.
and then why didn't you bet the flop? i definitely would have come out betting, as you're almost sure to get a caller, and you want the flush draw to pay big time to stay in. in fact, you want to bet high enough so that he is not getting proper odds to stay in at all.
on the turn, well as i said, betting the flop might have prevented this situation. as it is, yeah there is a chance you were beat. is this pokerstars or something? if it were party, i would have called at this point and shrugged if i lost because alot of people like to make this play on party with just the Q here.
either way, i think it was a mistake to not bet the flop.

question: might this have been a good time to use the stop and go? instead of reraising preflop as my instinct tells me to do, just call with the intention of pushing on the flop? i've been trying to understand when is a good time to use this move

[redwings03]

1 - How do you check that flop? I would bet it, maybe even move in & considering how poorly most players play I wouldn't be suprised to get called by someone with as little as JT.

2 - Aces are not a stop and go hand in response to the other poster. Aces are the King Daddy Bet for Value hand. You want 1-2 callers with aces (not 5) and you want the callers to pay the most you think you can get out of them. A stop and go type play is used to bluff/semi bluff a person out of pot generally when you hold small to medium pairs and you believe your opponent is on overcards only.

Lastly, always better to win a small pot with aces or any hand for that matter than lose a big one.

Oh, and for the record, I would say you were most probably beat.

[gergery]

I think the title of your post should be
"I folded Aces because I limp called preflop and checked the rag flop so it was my own fault"

Don't mean to be rude, but you could have played that much better preflop and on flop to avoid this necessary fold.

-greg

[Hood]

Using the hand converter makes the post a lot easier to read:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB (t985)
Hero (t1000)
UTG+1 (t985)
UTG+2 (t1030)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t985)
MP3 (t1055)
CO (t975)
Button (t955)
SB (t1030)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t80</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t80, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls t65, UTG+1 calls t65.

Flop: (t345) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (t345) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG+1 calls t250, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises to t975 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t1820
<font color="green">Main Pot: t1095 (t1095), won by MP3.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t725 (t725), returned to MP3.</font>

Results in white below:
No showdown. MP3 wins t1820.

[ZeeJustin]

Your play is awful for reasons already mentioned.

[Scottnyce]

Not trying to sound like Johnny A-Hole....but was that post a joke...that was terrible. What could be the reason to limp with the Aces if your not gonna re-raise.....

and then you check the flop.....????

Has to be a joke.....

[mikey checks]

Not to sound repetitive but you got raised preflop....that's perfect play to reraise &amp; bet the flop...you'll get at least a caller in both situations.

Sorry, man but everyone is right. You played the hand wrong.

[Prickly Pete]

Hey imcastleman, I'll let you rest easier here. I'm the villain FestivusPole and you had 2 outs as I had flopped a set with 22.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for calling raises with 22 and not betting the set against the flush draw, but I like to try to maximize things here.

Congrats on the 2nd btw, I think I pissed through my stack to finish 6th or something.

[NotMitch]

Love the name.

[fnurt]

I assume you were multitabling and didn't realize you had aces until the turn. Good laydown though.

[Prickly Pete]

Some guy the other night from Europe (don't remember where) was intrigued by my name and asked where I was from. He didn't realize we celebrated Festivus in the U.S. I played along for a while and I think he seriously celebrated some holiday called Festivus. When I finally said it was from a TV show, he didn't say another word. I'm probably his version of the Anti-Christ.

[imcastleman]

Thanks man. I knew I was beat here and figured you either had clubs already(which seems doubtful now that I look back at the hand since you would have had to have AK of clubs in order to comfortably call the preflop raise to 80 or you had a set of 2s or 4s, since I don't see you just calling the raise in later position with QQ or JJ.

Someone else mentions about me multi-tabling. Actually, at this time I was playing 4 at once and had action at 2 or 3 of them at the time this hand was raised preflop and I just called not really thinking about the situation. However, I do NOT MIND the deceptiveness of this play. There were going to be no more than 4 people in the hand and Aces usually hold up against 3 other players. I posted this because(and I hate to say this) it just goes to show that it is not important what happens in the first 3 levels of a single table tournament!!! People can flame me all they want for me playing this hand this way, but in the first three levels of the tournament, I play passively to protect my stack and after that it is balls to the wall, as some of you have seen in my play.

[Jason Strasser]

Maybe this type of play works for you, I hate it. The limp UTG is fine, and I make the play a lot. However, I'd never dream of limp call, then checking the flop.

Sounds awful. I'd reraise to 250 preflop and likely push the flop if I got a caller.

[PrayingMantis]

Hey imcastleman,

[ QUOTE ]
I just called not really thinking about the situation. However, I do NOT MIND the deceptiveness of this play. There were going to be no more than 4 people in the hand and Aces usually hold up against 3 other players. I posted this because(and I hate to say this) it just goes to show that it is not important what happens in the first 3 levels of a single table tournament!!! People can flame me all they want for me playing this hand this way, but in the first three levels of the tournament, I play passively to protect my stack and after that it is balls to the wall, as some of you have seen in my play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't want to sound rude, however: I assume you play the $215 (because that's where Pete plays, I know). I don't play these limits, but if what you say here is not a complete joke, you really shouldn't play the 215$, not to speak about multitabling, unless you have a lot of money and you really enjoy.

You played these aces really terribly, IMO, even for 5.5$ SNG, and your way of explaining it is absolutely ridiculus. Getting AA in the first rounds, limping from EP and getting raised is a present from god! How on earth can you say it is not important? Are you kidding?? Somebody wants to play with you, when you hold the nuts! come on! how can you flat call with few others in the pot?? And then checking the flop???? probably one of the craziest posts I've read hear for a while.

I know it's harsh, but that's the truth. And you've asked for this flaming... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gergery]

Praying Mantis speaks as if God himself came down to give you poker wisdom. Listen to him. And never play Aces like that again. Unless you are at my table.

[Beavis68]

if you are multi-tabling, isn't that even more reason to play them straight-forwardly? All-in baby!

[Tosh]

If you announced your hand with more players to act in a hand I was involved in, your name would be reported in a flash.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
If you announced your hand with more players to act in a hand I was involved in, your name would be reported in a flash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would it matter if i announce? people announce all the time that they have XY when they fold. I announce i have AA or whatever cards that gives me the 2nd best hand all the time when I fold. you would be an idiot to believe what they were saying is true.

is announcing cards illegal in Vegas?

[Potowame]

I also have ? to why you led out $250 bet on the turn when three players where calling that flop? You should have gave it up right there and kicked yourself for not putting him in prefolp, because he has position and if he comes over top you, you have no choice but to lay it down.

[Tosh]

Its out of order, whether you're telling the truth or not WHEN other people are to act. It can affect the play of the hand and is akin to mucking face up with others to act IMO.

[RoyalSampler]

I raise KK big preflop.
Flop came down A x x.
I bluff BIG at it from UTG. Two players to come...
First playing says, I'm going to fold and mucks his cards. Then goes, "no actually, I'll do this" picks his cards back up and flips them to show that he had an Ace!!! I.e. if third player has an Ace... I can't have the pockets, which I'm representing and they are most likely KK's or AK.

So... the third player DID happen to have the ace (AK)... and called and was absolutely adamate for the rest of the night that he wouldn't have called without having seen the ace (but didn't have the decency to void the hand).

I was left with $1 to play with, because someone thought it would be a nice idea to show his cards WITH ACTION REMAINING.

a) Is is against WSOP and casino rules (and now our home game rules)
b) I was so pissed off it ruined the night, I didn't handle it too well, my bad. Eventually my wife had the peace of mind to beer me up and all was well.
c) Do you honestly think what he did was considerate? Or ethical?

I hope I've made my point and I still get ired at the thought of this hand. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'll be over it in another 10 years.

[patrick dicaprio]

this is exactly the type of play that gets people into trouble, and then complaining that they took a bad beat. why did you just call and then not bet the flop?? if you just called because you wanted to reraise well you got your shot.but if you dont it is because you dont want it to be obvious that you have it when you bet a flop like this one so bet it!

Pat

[ligastar]

Hey RoyalSampler

That is an unreal story...a player reaching into the muck to flash his hand and affect play and the ongoing action. I'm not sure how you restrained yourself from getting physical w/ the player.

I know this post is addressing a different topic but it will be interesting to see how the rules evolve as poker becomes more of a mainstream "sport" in the U.S. Fans don't like gray areas when it comes to rules involving the play of their sports.

Greg H.

[RoyalSampler]

Yeh none of us understood how significant this previous "gray area" in our games was until that night.
It is nolonger gray. And since being screwed by this I've become a real advocate of that rule.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeh none of us understood how significant this previous "gray area" in our games was until that night.
It is nolonger gray. And since being screwed by this I've become a real advocate of that rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it. I am pretty laid back but I will really get annoyed with people doing it.

[Dominic]

I can't imagine playing your AA worse...you slow-rolled 'em and you let someone catch his flush or two pair...