confidence shot by bad beats - what to do?

[Aneubis]

After finishing in the money 40% of the time in my first 40 SNG's I haven't had a top 3 for 8 SNG's now. Been busted or crippled by people calling all in with draws/nothing and catching miracles. Feeling like I am turning into a calling station, which sucks. I know bad beats are part of the game but a week straight, how do you recover? Bank roll is taking a beating. I've even moved down in buy-in's. Here's an example hand. Got to know if I should do something different. Is there any way to keep people with these hands from calling a bet....maybe just go all-in? Any way I put him on that kind of a hand after calling a big pre-flop raise?

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t10 (9 handed)

Button (t1565.00)
Hero (t875.00)
BB (t740.00)
UTG (t1112.00)
UTG+1 (t1067.00)
MP1 (t1410.00)
MP2 (t1301.00)
MP3 (t945.00)
CO (t985.00)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of t10.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls t20, <font color="CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to t70</font>, BB calls t50, UTG+1 calls t50, Button calls t50.

Flop: (t280) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Button calls t200.

Turn: (t680) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t605</font>, Button calls t605.

River: (t1890) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t1890

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Qc Qs (two pair, queens and sevens).
Button shows 6s 7d (full house, sevens full of sixes).
Outcome: Button wins t1890. </font>

[La Brujita]

I think you should have raised it up to 125 or so pre flop. I think it is a bit hard to avoid going broke this hand frankly.

When things are running really bad sometimes people overlook the huge benefits of taking time off, exercising and getting the mind away from poker.

When you are losing poker is not fun and if you are playing it as a recreational activity you should take time off until it becomes fun again. If you are playing poker as a money making venture you should consider that it is a very difficult game to win when you are not playing your best.

I try to play a maximum of five days a week. BTW this is my day off but I am hanging around this site so I would be well served reading my advice this post.

Just my two cents.

Best regards

[SparkMan]

I used to play the $10+1 level at paradise and had good success. The strategy that I used in most SnG tournaments at this level was: Up to and including the 15/30 blind round just see the flop for cheap and play it strong if you flop a big hand, there's no shortage of loose calls. If there is already a raise and you have AA or KK narrow the field with an oversized raise. If your in the blind with JJ or QQ consider going all-in if you think its the best. If you only raise 50 as in the case you described your likely to get a bunch of callers and your UTG. In the middle rounds 30/60 50/100 play as tough as nails. When it hits 200 blind you have to open it up and steal antes or go all-in with any hand you play(with a stack up to 2000). When it gets to 500 or 1000 blind just play percentages. 67s is only a 3-2 against AKo. With loose action you can expect to get a bad streak of up to 20 games where you're struggling to make the money. It will all even out in the long run.

[Profit]

did you happen to watch the WPT tonite. Daniel negranue (butchered that i know) commented on the hi's and low's of poker. Where at one time every thing you do is correct and you are getting cards, the next session everything goes wrong and you start to question if you really know how to play this game. THis is coming from a successful poker professional and is something that i would imagine every card player goes through.

[SparkMan]

I don't get the travel channel. I know from personal experience that I've gone as long as a month (playing 6 to 8 hours a day) where almost every time you get your stack in with the best of it you get drawn out. And after a while you're only putting it all-in in spots where you know you've got the best of it. But that's a rare streak. It's happened twice in ten years of B&amp;M play. Mostly no-limit
7 card hi-lo , which was the most popular game on Vancouver Island at that time.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
After finishing in the money 40% of the time in my first 40 SNG's I haven't had a top 3 for 8 SNG's now. Been busted or crippled by people calling all in with draws/nothing and catching miracles. Feeling like I am turning into a calling station, which sucks. I know bad beats are part of the game but a week straight, how do you recover? Bank roll is taking a beating. I've even moved down in buy-in's.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nothing unusual and your best remedy is simply to get used to it and accept the idea that every time you get drawn out on, you've made $EV... it just happens to be on loan at the moment.

Your bankroll needs to be able to absorb such swings. It sounds as if you may be underbankrolled but you haven't discussed any $ figures. If 8 losses in a row is straining your bankroll, you are probably playing way out of range.

eastbay

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
After finishing in the money 40% of the time in my first 40 SNG's I haven't had a top 3 for 8 SNG's now.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not a surprisingly long streak even if the 40% ITM from the first 40 is typical. You don't have much data, but you placed in the money 16/48 times, which is not much above random. Are you sure you are a winning player? Maybe you just had a lucky streak at first.

[ QUOTE ]
... I know bad beats are part of the game but a week straight, how do you recover? Bank roll is taking a beating. I've even moved down in buy-in's. Here's an example hand. Got to know if I should do something different. Is there any way to keep people with these hands from calling a bet....maybe just go all-in? Any way I put him on that kind of a hand after calling a big pre-flop raise?

Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of t10.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t20, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls t20, <font color="CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to t70</font>, BB calls t50, UTG+1 calls t50, Button calls t50.

Flop: (t280) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Button calls t200.

Turn: (t680) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t605 (all-in)</font>, Button calls t605.

River: (t1890) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Hero shows Q/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (two pair, queens and sevens).
Button shows 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (full house, sevens full of sixes).
Outcome: Button wins t1890.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif You didn't make a large preflop raise. You made a nuisance raise. The size of your raise should depend on the number of people already in the pot. With two limpers, making everyone call an extra 2.5 BB is not a large raise. Make it 100 if you want people to take the raise seriously. This isn't limit hold'em.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif This was not a bad beat. In a bad beat, the bulk of the chips go in when you are the favorite. Here, the button put in 70 chips when you were the favorite, and 805 when you were a big underdog. You overbet your pair. This is probably a serious leak in your game, yet you call it a bad beat? Accept responsibility for your mistakes.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Since you didn't make a large bet preflop, you can't assume much about the button's hand. Ok, then you made a substantial bet on the flop. The button called. This means something. The button probably has an overpair or hit the flop (possibly with a draw; a flush draw and an OESD are possible). So, exactly why did you push on the turn? What better hands do you think will fold, or what worse hands do you think will call?

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Did you think about your bad position? Did you consider trying to check-raise the flop instead of betting out? If you play the same way postflop from the blinds as you do from late position, you are playing badly in at least one location.

You need to work on your game. When you improve, your results will almost certainly improve.

[Phill S]

i second it absolutely

having played for a couple of years, since just after turning 18, i can tell you that you will go on losing streaks. recently i took a BIG one. nothing went right and i questioned my ability.

it was after this i started analysing my game more closely, win per hour, win per tourney, ITM, ROI the usual. basicly watching myself closly like this improved my game. i learnt the details of my play. it instilled confidence and turned my play.

all you can do is hang in there, just record your play. if you truly cant win, then work on your game. but we all go through bad spells, it happens, its how you deal with them that sets you apart.

[Sam T.]

I would suggest taking a couple of days off, rereading TOP and TPFAP, etc. I find that studying not only improves my game, but (perhaps more importantly) increases my confidence becaue I know most of the people at the table don't do it.

[mikey checks]

The bad play here other than incorrectly raising was not respecting the call on the flop.

The turn puts the hand at a GS-SD....I wouldve been real concerned about the straight

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif You didn't make a large preflop raise. You made a nuisance raise. The size of your raise should depend on the number of people already in the pot. With two limpers, making everyone call an extra 2.5 BB is not a large raise. Make it 100 if you want people to take the raise seriously. This isn't limit hold'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes indeedy. You can't expect someone who has already limped in to fold for an extra T50.

"But I don't want to raise more," they always say, "because they just call me with trash and draw out on me." Be that as it may, it's a choice you make. You can't go making tiny raises and getting pissed at everyone when they don't instantly give you credit for AA.

[slogger]

First of all, streaks happen. I just posted elsewhere in the forum that through 36 10+1 tourneys I was doing really well (but those 36 tourneys included a losing streak of 6 straight). It's going to happen, but it doesn't mean you can't be profitable in the long run. You should try to play steadily at one level of buy-in over at least 100 tourneys in order to ensure yourself that you're playing winning poker and to ensure that you have a large enough bankroll to play at the next level without being so concerned about a little losing streak.

As for the hand, it's a tough beat that probably could not have been avoided (seems that this guy had his heart set on seeing that flop), but I don't think you played the hand as well as you could have.

Pre-flop: there are 2 callers to you in the SB, and you are out of position with a hand that does not want to see an A or K flop (you are vulnerable). Raise the pot (make it about 90-100 to go. If they all fold, you should be more than happy to collect 60 chips unconstested at this stage of the tourney. And if 67o is willing to put in another 80 as a huge dog, that's excellent.

Flop: Even though we know now that you were in big trouble, you have to at least bet the pot on this draw-heavy flop (280). If you're raised, you can toss it or proceed with extreme caution (unless you think the guy is a manic) and if called, I think you can safely slow down and look for a better spot when Button turns up the heat on the Turn. Of course, it would suck to have to throw away a big overpair, but you'd have over 500 chips left at a very early stage of the tourney...coming back from that shouldn't be too tough if you pick the right spots.

Point is, although you played it OK, I think you could have bet a little more both preflop and on the flop.

[Aneubis]

Thanks for all the advice. I did decide to take a few days off and do some study. My pattern seems to be study/read then improve, not study for a while then regress some. Only been playing about 9 months and only been playing NL about 4. I know there is plenty of room for improvement. The advice was good, alot of reinforcing what I knew in my gut. QQ seems to be a tricky hand for me too. Not sure how much to raise pre-flop, if it's to little I let people in with junk. If it's to big I worry that the people who call will have overcards on me. Then when the flop has a King or Ace how do I play the hand? Got a lot to learn, Thanks

[patrick dicaprio]

i think you misplayed this hand somewhat although i dont doubt that you have hit a rough streak. with two callers of the blind your pot sized raise is offering the next player 2-1 to call the next 3-1 and the next 4-1 (approx). with other callers in you either have to raise a lot more preflop or just call. nothing wrong with that with small blinds.

when the button calls a preflop raise and then calls your flop bet he is calling 200 to win 480. even if he has a mere draw you are still allowing him to play with +EV.

once you are called here and a 5 comes you shouldnt push in here. there is a straight on board and two of two suits. so if he had a straight draw he made it and he isnt going to fold a flush draw.

I can see why you thought this was a bad beat however, and if it was me i might feel the same way until i thought about it some more.

Pat

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't make a large preflop raise. You made a nuisance raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to build on that, after your bet the BB needed to risk 50 to win 120 just on pot odds, and with implied odds it makes it correct for him to call with a reasonable set of hands even if you knew what you had. Once the BB was in, the next guy is risking 50 to win 170, which makes it correct to call with just about any hand that someone would want to limp in with in the first place.

Bottom line: It's highly likely you will be getting callers with that size raise, and it wouldn't be a terrible mistake on their part.

And 50 sngs is not enough to draw conclusions on. My first 70 sngs at $20 had me winning 23% and placing 48% for an ROI of 70%. Then a couple of 14 game stretches of GusHansenSyndrome (i will outplay them with my 62o!) brought me back to reality.

-greg