shooting star last hand(spoiler so dont read if you havent seen it yet

[scotnt73]

First of all lets please not make this a moneymaker good/bad debate.

If been in a few online tourneys where ive been in a very similar situation as him and i just call it down with the chip leader unless i flop a monster. JJ is very good but would you have gone all-in in that spot? Im thinking about calling it down because i want to have twice the chance of doubling my prize money. He still got second but he could have pushed gordon out with the all-in.

[Dynasty]

[quote He still got second but he could have pushed gordon out with the all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't remember the specific stack sizes. But, with lots of money in the pot, you often want Ace-rag to fold pre-flop against your JJ. Remember, Ace-rag will beat your hand about 30% of the time.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[quote He still got second but he could have pushed gordon out with the all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't remember the specific stack sizes. But, with lots of money in the pot, you often want Ace-rag to fold pre-flop against your JJ. Remember, Ace-rag will beat your hand about 30% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, he made the right play, going all-in and forcing Gordon to make a tough decision here with his hand. If I were in Phil's spot I would have folded and I think that in the long run that's the correct play. however, I have read Phil's explanation of his call and his logic makes sense to me.

Just calling the one guy's all-in, bringing Gordon into the pot and then checking it down with Phil from there is a recipe for disaster. If Phil wins the hand (by checking it down) he has a huge chip lead here and I believe the outcome would have been the same due to the disparity in stack sizes.

The only other pheasible way I see to play this hand is to call the all-in pre-flop and bring Gordon along. I can't remember who had position here, but I think it's simply a matter of reading Phil once the flop hits. You either push in or fold if a scare card comes off and you think you're beat (based on your read and if you get bet into).

[SossMan]

Since, as usual, nobody gives enough information to do any real analysis of the hand, I will give my two cents:

Here are the stack sizes:
Phil - T1.725M
Chris -T460K
Masoud - T260K

Third pays $100,000
2nd pays $200,000
1st pays $360,000

Third place is locked up, so they stand to gain $100,000 for 2nd and $260,000 for 1st.

Blinds are T20k-T40k w/ T10k ante.
Masoud is on button and acts first preflop.

He goes all in for his T235k w/ Td6d

Phil calls T235k. w/ A7o.

Chris has T460k. Should he go all in or just flat call w/ his JJ?

Well, if he goes all in, it is another T225k back to Phil.

The pot is 235k + 235k + 460k + 30k(antes) = T960k.

He's getting about 4.25:1 preflop.
I'm not really sure why he took so long to act, because he essentially should be calling here 100% of the time. Even if he puts one of them on a bigger Ace, he should call.

Chris should know that Phil is pot committed preflop.

However, he isn't pot committed on the flop.

If Chris just calls preflop, there is T735k in the pot.

Since the side pot is dry, Chris knows that Phil knows Chris would have to have a real hand to bet on a raggy flop. Therefore, Chris could shut Phil out of seeing the turn and river on a non-ace flop, even though Phil is getting about 3:1 on the flop call. He has to face the strong possibility that he's drawing to 3 outs at best.

Since Chris has no folding equity preflop, I think that flat calling preflop and using the protected pot postflop to guide your decision is much better.
Note also, that Chris knows that Phil won't bluff w/ a hand Chris can beat on the flop since the side pot is dry.

So, I think a flat call and a push on any non-ace flop is better for Chris than an all in preflop.

As far as Phil folding preflop, it's plain silly.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Since, as usual, nobody gives enough information to do any real analysis of the hand, I will give my two cents:

Here are the stack sizes:
Phil - T1.725M
Chris -T460K
Masoud - T260K

Third pays $100,000
2nd pays $200,000
1st pays $360,000

Third place is locked up, so they stand to gain $100,000 for 2nd and $260,000 for 1st.

Blinds are T20k-T40k w/ T10k ante.
Masoud is on button and acts first preflop.

He goes all in for his T235k w/ Td6d

Phil calls T235k. w/ A7o.

Chris has T460k. Should he go all in or just flat call w/ his JJ?

Well, if he goes all in, it is another T225k back to Phil.

The pot is 235k + 235k + 460k + 30k(antes) = T960k.

He's getting about 4.25:1 preflop.
I'm not really sure why he took so long to act, because he essentially should be calling here 100% of the time. Even if he puts one of them on a bigger Ace, he should call.

Chris should know that Phil is pot committed preflop.

However, he isn't pot committed on the flop.

If Chris just calls preflop, there is T735k in the pot.

Since the side pot is dry, Chris knows that Phil knows Chris would have to have a real hand to bet on a raggy flop. Therefore, Chris could shut Phil out of seeing the turn and river on a non-ace flop, even though Phil is getting about 3:1 on the flop call. He has to face the strong possibility that he's drawing to 3 outs at best.

Since Chris has no folding equity preflop, I think that flat calling preflop and using the protected pot postflop to guide your decision is much better.
Note also, that Chris knows that Phil won't bluff w/ a hand Chris can beat on the flop since the side pot is dry.

So, I think a flat call and a push on any non-ace flop is better for Chris than an all in preflop.

As far as Phil folding preflop, it's plain silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think Phil folding Phil pre-flop is silly at all, he could easily be up against a dominating hand against either opponent and that's his main consideration b/c if that is the case he is a very big underdog. However, if his reads are rags for the one guy and pockets for MM (no matter what pockets) then he made the right play.

[sdplayerb]

Paul Phillips did a writeup and analysis on this hand, and I completely agree.
Phil Gordon is not going away preflop, but can postflop.
Per his flat call you can't put him on a monster.

Actually I think both Moneymaker and Gordon made a mistake. Gordon should have pushed in in the first place since he was potcommited, and would want to see all five cards.
So the best play is to call preflop, and if no overcards pushin.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think Phil folding Phil pre-flop is silly at all, he could easily be up against a dominating hand against either opponent and that's his main consideration b/c if that is the case he is a very big underdog.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if either one of them showed him AK, he should still call. He's getting over 4.25:1. That means that unless someone shows him AA, he has a call. Plus he has a huge chip lead and a chance to end the tourney right there.

[sdplayerb]

There is no way Phil is folding when he is getting 4.5-1..and Phil correctly made the call. From Moneymaker's reaction you know he doesn't have AA, so Phil is going to have around a 30% to win the hand.

[sdplayerb]

Exactly on everything, including it should not hae taken Phil so long to call.