Just leave?

Today, in a Bellagio 15-30 hold 'em game, there was a maniacal, loose and very, very "lucky" player who was simply running all over the game. He was playing EVERY hand, and catching cards with the ugliest of starting hands. As me and my pals were getting our asses kicked, it dawned on me that all I had to do was "wait it out"...as "this too, shall pass". However, after losing 3 more hands to junk offsuit, etc., I became agitated and decided to just go home. Later, a friend from the game called me to tell me that the maniac did in fact end up losing all the chips back. (How did I know that would happen?). My question is this: How do you handle a situation where you are beaten by a guy that never should have "been there" in the first place? Do you simply just "wait it out" (and buy more chips) or do you just give up and go home to wait for tomorrow's game? Or...??? Thanks. Babe

Babe,


A couple of expressions come to mind: "it ain't no fun, when the rabbit's got the gun," "the lettuce are eating the rabbits" and "sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug." In other words, there will be days like this when all your good hands get beat and an idiot can play any two cards every hand and seemingly win all or most of them. Don't forget that it is these players who we make money off of and if they never won, they'd never play. It's what I've heard called "the beauty of the game". If you can't emotionally ride out these periods and you begin to play badly yourself, then taking a break or quitting for awhile(or the day) may be the best solution for you. I would, however, suggest that you try to change your outlook and find ways of coping with these periods, as they can come up quite often and you should want to be there when "the rush is over" and a bad player has a mountain of chips to burn up. This has not been an easy or quick thing for me to learn, but I've worked hard on it(as I have all other aspects of my game to the best of my increasing ability) and the rewards are(and have been) definately there. I hope this was of some help.


Mike

I don't think this is something you can or should worry about. Losing to inferior hands NEVER has- and never will- cause me to leave a game. The question is, should it cause you to stay in a game? I think it depends. I play poker mainly as my schedule allows, so for me the answer is probably not. At least not if it's just one player. It would take an awfully bad player with a TON of live chips to cause me to stay in a game longer than I had planned. But I can't say that this has never happened /images/smile.gif

While I favor playing with the so called correct hands and correct position,ect, as stated by SunGM "In other words, there will be days like this when all your good hands get beat and an idiot can play any two cards every hand and seemingly win all

or most of them."


This brings me to my question and point, does this not say the the cards run in cycles, and we are subject to those cycles, and no matter how good of player we are, we can't over come the cycles, "other" than waiting until the cycle and manic riding it comes to an end. Did this not come up this year in the WSOP, all the favorites and so called Pro's got beat out with premiumn hands and a totally unknown player won. Does that not reinforce this theory.


If this is the case, then, what does this say for the game of poker, it too then is subject to forces that are beyond our rational control????? Just something we have all thought about in those moments!!!!

DJMC,


You may be right about "cycles"---there's just one problem---there is no way to predict "luck", good or bad. That the Babe's maniac eventually gave back all the chips proves that fact. Had she stayed she may have been the recipient of all those chips, or she may not have. Maybe if she stayed the maniac would have kept winning, through no fault of her own....just the way the cards came out of and went back into the deck....maybe the person who took her seat played ONE more hand than she would have and that took the maniac off his rush, or maybe it could have worked the other way around. Let's say you're running bad, do you think that your "run of bad cards" or "bad beats" is going to be limited to a period of time? What if it's limited to a "period of time at the table"? Then what do you do? I'll tell you what you do....you lose as little as possible when you have the worst of it and make as much as possible when you have the best of it....just like you do the rest of the time, if you play well. Unless, you want to quit forever, because you'll never know when(or if) your bad run will end.


As to the WSOP, I don't know much about that. I know who won....didn't hear too much criticism of his play, but it doesn't matter. The "great players" cannot stop the event because they're not catching cards, they must play through it. If I'm not mistaken, Jack Strauss came back to win the series with only one chip and he didn't even know he had it, it had been under a napkin when he put the rest of his chips in. Could(should) he have made them stop the tournament just because he started badly? Of course not, and in the same vein, all we can do when things are going badly is keep examining our own game, make necessary adjustments and put in the hours, that is if we're serious about making money playing poker.


As Forrest Gump would say, "and that's all I have to say about that",


Mike

Mike,


I was not criticizing anyone, and I understand that "the mathematics of the game" should and willprevail but there are what I refer to as cycles, and I agree, you can't predict how long they will run, but you also must be able to realize that what she did was to minimize her losses by leaving in this situation, which is the one controlling factor we all have to escape the down turn of the cards or what ever you want to call it, I refer to it as cycles. I do so, since everything on our earth runs in cycles, spring, summer, ect... There are even probilities that have taken "cycles into account" I always keep my options opened, no matter what mathematical basis or premise" I am playing under. Keep in mind that gaming is always spoken of in terms of "long run and short run " which is also refering to a cycle.

Poker Babe,


Why not leave? I was in a similar situation today playing 3-6 and left after about 15 minutes because it just wasn't fun! I don't mind losing to a better player, but when people don't understand a check-raise and don't respect a raise, why bother? When you flop top 2 pair on the board and lose to trip 2's on the River to UTG, and the person has No Clue, it just sucks. In addition to monitoring your own play, you now have to worry about letting another player put you on tilt. It's like playing with an obnoxious drunk. Yes, in the long run you WILL win money back from these players, but you must consider your game selection. Good luck!

I'm only going to leave a game with this player in it if I don't think I'm playing well. I see these guys win mountains of chips and lose every one of them plus more too often to believe they will keep those chips very long. If your agitation is likely to adversely affect your play, then I think you did the right thing by leaving.

Same thing happened to me this past week. People were baffled by the "expert" way in which the player would catch his backdoor flush, gutshot straight, etc. One thing that happens is that people don't make the correct adjustments against the maniac and the game gets very loose and aggressive. So in a way, the maniac's play becomes more correct, because others do not play well against him.


If you don't want to play in a "wild" game and experience huge swings, it is best to find another game or go home for the day. I put in my usual 8 hours and left down for the day, having been pounded several times by the maniac.


And just to show how great the luck factor is in poker, at the end of that session, the maniac was still sitting atop a mountain of chips.


sam

Thanks to all for the excellent feedback. When in doubt, I just leave. Babe.

This is how you should approach this type of game.

The other good players are going to recognize a maniac on a rush and they are going to adjust their game to this. They are going to try and isolate this player as they figure their AK or whatever is better than anything the maniac is playing. They are going to play hands they should not and are going to try to steal when the normally would not and should not. The maniac will call them down with any draw or bottom pair.


You need to sit there (or take a walk if you can not control your game) and WAIT. When you get a premium hand and the maniac is to your right, RAISE. When the maniac is to your left, RAISE!

Do not wait until the turn or river to try and trap this type of player, RAISE, RAISE, RAISE at every option.


The player may be lucky but they are not totally dumb. They will make a lot of bad calls chasing on the flop and turn but they will NOT call with nada on the river which is what they are going to have half the time. You must make them pay to see the flop and turn and river.


Everytime they make 2 pair with K2 suited against your AK or AA, just say, "nice hand sir, well played" and wait for the next opportunity.


Just leave - are you crazy, you waited all day for this nut to show up. Now play right and don't be a nut yourself, let the other players lose control.

Thanks, Pro. Good advice.