Just won my first NL multi table on Party....

[JARID]

I'm pretty fired up! Unfortunately it was only a twenty dollar entry but, whatever. Not bad for a Tuesday. I've picked up some great advice from this site, so thanks.

I want to submit my final two strategy for review. I was taking alot of heat for it at the table. When it got down to the final two, we were fairly close in chips, I was trailing slightly. I kept raising her BB about three times the amount. Sometimes she would fold, but more and more she would start to come over the top big and...I would fold. I was pretty much doing this with any two, raising that is. I had enough chips that I didn't need to flush them on some marginal call of a re-raise. My guess was that she would continue this pattern and eventually do it at the wrong time, which is what happen, twice for all her chips. Therefore, I had a little "I told you so" session with the cackling hen that was giving me crap, but maybe I was folding too much, so does anyone have any opinion?

Thanks-
Jarid

[cferejohn]

Your strategy sounds fine. I guess at first she was folding enough to make it profitable to just keep stealing, but eventually she started coming over the top more. Did it ever get to the point where she was actually making money on this (i.e. she was coming over the top and making you fold more than one time in three)? If not, and there are enough chips to withstand some fluctuation, then by all means keep doing it until you get a hand you don't mind calling with.

I often effectively use this strategy when heads up at a final table if the opponent is suceptible to it. I will often just call or muck every 5th hand or so just so it isn't blindingly obvious what I am doing (and usually with the blind/stack ratio, if you can 'get away' with this about 7-10 times, you'll have built yourself quite a chip lead).

Would she never just call and play a flop with you? If not, it seems like she was doing a poor job of adjusting. Another (riskier) adjustment would have been to re-raise you every single time, since then *she* would be the one in the postion where she would take your chips pretty quick, unless you caught a hand pretty quick (and more likely you would abandon the strategy).

Sure sounds like you tried a strategy. Made note of her counter strategy. Realized that it was not going to be effective as you'd catch her with a monster sometime (since she was presumably re-raising pretty thin some of the time), and that you could 'tread water' in the mean time.

Nice work. And congratulations.

[La Brujita]

Congratulations on the win! Why were you raising three times the big blind with any two, I guess I don't get that strategy?

What does a 3x bb raise get you that 2.5 doesn't? Why not fold your marginal hands? I reread your post and realized she was folding enough to make this an optimal strategy correct?

Most importantly what was the size of the blinds in relation to your stack size?

[cferejohn]

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What does a 3x bb raise get you that 2 or 2.5 doesn't?


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Good point. I'd go with at least 2.5 though. Just double is too easy to call.

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Why not fold your marginal hands?


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Well, if he started folding marginal hands, then she would presumably stop playing back with marginal hands, and it sounded like the rhythm they got into was a stalemate that would only get broken when he had a hand good enough to call her all-in. I'll take that situation and wait for AQ, AK, or JJ and up to call.

[ QUOTE ]

Most importantly what was the size of the blinds in relation to your stack size?

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I'm curious about the stack/blind amounts as well...

[La Brujita]

[ QUOTE ]
Good point. I'd go with at least 2.5 though. Just double is too easy to call.

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Funny, I edited this basically two minutes after I typed it because of that exact reason.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if he started folding marginal hands, then she would presumably stop playing back with marginal hands, and it sounded like the rhythm they got into was a stalemate that would only get broken when he had a hand good enough to call her all-in. I'll take that situation and wait for AQ, AK, or JJ and up to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear you on this, the main reason I was a bit confused was from my experience the blinds become huge in relation to the stack sizes so the thing you have to guard against is letting the other peson dominate you by stealing. I think you and I read his post in two different ways, in the sense that I thought when I read it his stack was diminishing because her steals were cutting into it, while you understood his steals to keep the stack sizes at least generally the same. That was a very convoluted sentence but do you get my point?

[ligastar]

JARID...first of all congrats on the win! I know it was a great thrill for you. I've played 40 MTT (mainly $20 and $30s) and won a $20 NLHE PP MTT that had 888 entries. At the start of HU I had 60% of the chips...I was doing the same thing raising x3BB whether I had a hand or not about 80% of the time. After a handful of hands I now had 40% of the chips and this hand came up...I popped the BB w/ the x3BB raise they popped me with a good re-raise and I called w/ 88 (there is about 35% of the chips in play in the middle). Flop came Jc-Js-8s BAM FULL BOAT!!!...it goes check, check, turn is a spade...check, check...river is a spade...I check opponent goes all in...I call and take the pot (other player didn't show...had to have a high flush). Two hands later it was over.

I like the strategy of playing aggresively from the SB during HU...it adds deception and the other person is more likey to go over the top of you when you are hammering them like this...and if the time is right you've got 'em. I understand that you are out of position the rest of the hand but I think it is important to be aggressive from the SB.

Good job again on the win!

Greg H

[Jason Strasser]

Congrats, what was the payout?

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you and I read his post in two different ways, in the sense that I thought when I read it his stack was diminishing because her steals were cutting into it, while you understood his steals to keep the stack sizes at least generally the same. That was a very convoluted sentence but do you get my point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. The impression I had was that his strategy was a winning one at first, but was now beginning to tip towards break-even, maybe towards being a losing one. He didn't describe her as pushing back "every other hand" though, which is pretty much what she would have to do in order to make it a profitable strategy.

Frankly, against such an opponent (who is raising all the time) myself, I will occasionally pop him back, but more often call and play the flop aggressively.

Anyway, JARID, did it reach the point where you were losing ground to her, or did her re-stealing just get her to roughly break even.

Also, what was happening on the other 50% of the hands (i.e. where she was acting first). If she was sucessfully stealing on every hand or nearly every hand, that could easily have tipped the balance the other way.

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What does a 3x bb raise get you that 2 or 2.5 doesn't?


[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I'd go with at least 2.5 though. Just double is too easy to call.

[ QUOTE ]

Why not fold your marginal hands?


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if he started folding marginal hands, then she would presumably stop playing back with marginal hands, and it sounded like the rhythm they got into was a stalemate that would only get broken when he had a hand good enough to call her all-in. I'll take that situation and wait for AQ, AK, or JJ and up to call.

[ QUOTE ]

Most importantly what was the size of the blinds in relation to your stack size?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious about the stack/blind amounts as well...

[/ QUOTE ]

I had been raising three times the BB all tourney. It had been working great. If I opened the betting it was three times with no deviation. AA looked the same as KJ, deuce-rag or whatever. Couple times peolpe played back like it was a steal and I had a big hand. I was just keeping with what had worked.

Marginal Hands question:

She was folding her marginal SB hands and it was just a great relief on my part. I didn't want to give her any such relief. It was abit of a stalemate, as I was determined not to flush on just anything. I did call with once with K8, and then it ended on AJ and AK. Patience is a virtue. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Stack/Blinds:

Our stacks were around 200k-250k I believe. Blinds were 8k and then 10k. She was folding just enough for me to tread water. I was down to around 120k and then four hands later it was all over.

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear you on this, the main reason I was a bit confused was from my experience the blinds become huge in relation to the stack sizes so the thing you have to guard against is letting the other peson dominate you by stealing. I think you and I read his post in two different ways, in the sense that I thought when I read it his stack was diminishing because her steals were cutting into it, while you understood his steals to keep the stack sizes at least generally the same. That was a very convoluted sentence but do you get my point?


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Its funny, I never really felt pressured by the size of the blinds. I felt comfortable initiating the aggression, but still able to make a laydown if need be.

-Jarid

[JARID]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear you on this, the main reason I was a bit confused was from my experience the blinds become huge in relation to the stack sizes so the thing you have to guard against is letting the other peson dominate you by stealing. I think you and I read his post in two different ways, in the sense that I thought when I read it his stack was diminishing because her steals were cutting into it, while you understood his steals to keep the stack sizes at least generally the same. That was a very convoluted sentence but do you get my point?


[/ QUOTE ]

THe pendulum was swinging. It was working, then even, then I was losing ground. She was continually folding her SB's which was huge. Also, she would just call sometimes and allow me to catch. She made it very obvious when she caught, she would just go all in, so I would fold.(no hand of course)

-Jarid

[JARID]

Thanks. Almost 3k.



-Jarid