2nd place too many times

[Hung]

Hello,

I play a lot of sit and go's on party. $100 or $200 NL HE tables. I also bought poker tracker not so long ago. I have 54 sit and go's in my PT database. 30% of the times I get 2nd place. I only got 1st place 4 times. Somehow I always lose when we're HU. They call with incredible things. For example, today. I have 3k in chips and he has 7k in chips. He's sb and I'm bb. Blinds are 250-500. He calls and I move all-in. He calls with 45o and wins with pair of 5. I ran the odds in some poker prgram. K7 beats 45o 62% of the time. That does not seem a lot to me. That means you'll lose 4 out of ten times. I also make a lot of moves when I have an ace or any pair. But they never seem to hold. Eventhough I'm holding a stronger hand. THe blinds are very high and you can't wait for big hands. Any two face cards, pairs or aces has to be played. Yesterday I ran into AA twice in a headsup situation. He got AA twice.
Another guy raised chip with 79s UTG (blinds 100-200) and I moved all in with AKo (I have a bigger stack) He calls and flops a straight. I'm still in the tournament. But WTF? I'm not talking about idiots, I see these guys play several sit and go's. So they're not morons, trying a sit & go.
I need to change my strategy. I think it's weird that a higker card has such a weak value in HU situation.

[Jason Strasser]

Hi Hung,

You likely ran into me!

As discussed many times in this forum, pushing all in every hand in a sng party style is very close to optimal. I wrote a post about it a while ago (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=736307& Forum=,,,All_Forums,,,&Words=&Searchpage=2&Limit=2 5&Main=736307&Search=true&where=&Name=6086&dateran ge=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&body prev=#Post736307). You have to be extremely aggressive when the blinds get higher, otherwise you are giving up way too much.

Sometimes heads up can run hot and cold, 45 sngs is not a good sample size.

[37offsuit]

The value from higher cards come from the fact that they can win unimproved. When you take cards like K7 you're losing value because of your reduced straight possibilities.

Why are you pushing with K7 anyway? He's shown a bit of weakness by just calling the BB, so why not check and then bet out at the flop? Try to take down some small pots with aggression to keep you going until you can make a move with a high pocket pair or AK, AQ etc.

While he was wrong to call with the 54o, at heads up time a lot of players figure that if they have you 3 to 1 in chips then they have two chances to knock you off and even if they miss, the forth time will likely get them back up. It's unusual to lose 4 times in a row and their aggression has the added bonus of stealing some blinds when you fold.

These people are just happy they're in the money and figure you need to get lucky heads up anyway, so they might as well try and get lucky when they still have chips left if they lose.

Good heads up players know that selective aggression and good reads can win you way more than your fair share.

[ZeeJustin]

54 SNG's is nothing. I think you need at least 1000 SNG's for an accurate analysis of winrate as well as % of time you finish in any given position.

[Jason Strasser]

37off, with all due respect, you could not be more wrong.

This is party poker blind structure, let me remind you.

Hung said 250/500 blinds. T10000 in play. Equal stacks.

You fold K7 when he limps in?? Are you absolutely nuts? I'm sorry to come across like that, but I would hope every single 2+2 poster would not dare do that. Unless he is the type to limp in with a monster, this is a CLEAR all in, it does not get any more clear than that.

Do you want him to call? Not really. If he calls, will you be screwed most of the time? No.

What other options do you have? Fold? Raise?

If you raise, and you arent going all in, then you are putting in far too many chips to see a flop and fold.

This is cut and dry. K7o, blinds this size, is all in. You have one move. The equity you gain from him folding in this spot makes this the best move.

[woodguy]

I forget who posted this, but it is very useful.
http://rwa.homelinux.net/poker/hand-rankings.html
regards,
woodguy

[ZeeJustin]

BTW, I agree with everything Jason has said in this thread so far.

[Hung]

I need 1000 sit and go's to get a correct annalyse? I'll be broke by then hahaha /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm not doing very well. I'm winning, but not enough. I started these sit&go's because someone at the Limit O8 $10-$20 was bragging about the fact that he wins 30k a month playing only sit&go $200 at party. So that's why I started to play too. It does not sound unreal. Winner takes about $800. If he could reach the money 50% of the time he could reach 30K. Depending how many sit & go's he plays.
I'll post my results: Only 59 sit and go's.
I don't know if it's good or bad. I'm not satisfied, I want to reach 1st more often.

1ste: 5
2nd: 15
3rd: 5
others: 33

totail paid: $6725
amount won: $9150
net amount: $2425

I don't understand the amount won and net amount. Did I win 2425 dollars net playing sit and go?

I play very aggressive when we're 3-4 players left. But somehow there's always someone that is calling me with some weird hand. I used to go all-in very often. But I don't do that anymore. Someone with a big hand will call me and I'll be out. I just try to make a cheap raise and steal the blinds. You've to be selective of course. Don't steal from the biggest aggressive stack.

I just won one woohoo!!! finally. I got lucky though. KQo we both have 5k. Blinds are 200-400. I make it 2K preflop he calls. On the flop I have an open ended straightdraw (TJx) he checks and I move all in. He folds... weird. He's low on chips and I get Ax trhee times in a row. I move in three times and he folded every time. Blinds killed him...

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The worst mistake you can make heads-up is to fold too often. You really need to see almost every flop. If you're folding preflop as much as 1/4 of the time your opponent can usually beat you just by raising 100% of the time without even looking at his cards.

I also make a lot of moves when I have an ace or any pair.

Another heads-up mistake. Since heads-up you play so many hands vs the same opponent, patterns become obvious sooner. Thus it's much more important to randomize your play so your opponent has a harder time reading you.

I have 3k in chips and he has 7k in chips. He's sb and I'm bb. Blinds are 250-500. He calls and I move all-in. He calls with 45o and wins with pair of 5. I ran the odds in some poker prgram. K7 beats 45o 62% of the time.

Think it through. You don't need a pair to make the play, thus any 2 live cards aren't much more than a 3-2 dog against any 2 overcards. There's 3500 in the pot, and he has to put in 2500 to call. That's 7-5 pot odds, almost as good as his chance of winning the hand. Yet, since he's still alive if he loses the hand, he can make the slightly -CEV call, since the 38% of the time he wins the hand, he finishes 1st, but the 62% of the time he loses the hand, he doesn't necessarily finish 2nd. Thus the play, though it's -CEV is not necessarily -$EV.