9-18 hand

here's a 9-18 hand i played last night at commerce club.


im in the cutoff with K2d in a loose-passive 8 handed game. 3 people limp to me and i limp, button limps, blinds call.


7 handed we see the flop which is QJ6 w/ one diamond. sb bets, everyone calls, i call and button calls.


the turn is the Ks (rainbow). sb checks, bb bets, folded to me, i raise, button and sb fold. bb calls.


river is a 3. he checks, i check.


any comments are very welcome.

Mike,


I don't like the preflop call even though the game type makes it not terrible. I'm not saying that I've never made the same call, but I think with a hand like this, even being one off the button could make it that much more troublesome. I also think the call on the flop is very marginal as you can't be sure that the button won't reopen the action. Besides, you can pick up a draw that makes someone the nuts or make someone the nut flush draw. Hitting the K doesn't seem so great as you are very likely up against a better hand if only a better K, which would leave you without very many(or any) outs. I like the raise on the turn better than a call but not better than a fold, I can't see where you would have the best hand very often. Still, I might guess that you won this hand, if so, glad you took it down, but I would suggest avoiding these situations, you will not win this hand(especially the way it went down) very many times.


Mike

I agree that the call before the flop is marginal at best (especially at Commerce where the games are almost always agressive), but I think the call on the flop is pretty bad. All there is to go on is a weak overcard and two backdoor draws. These kinds of calls really add to fluctuations and money lost in the long run.

K2s? We could debate whether K2s is a worth a call pre-flop but there is no clear-cut answer here. I'd need at least two more callers to play it. In general Kxs is a hand I'm mucking much more often than I used to. It's a weak hand.


Your call on the flop is very loose. Much too loose. Money-losing loose. If you don't flop a four-flush with K2s, the hand has very little value.


When you don't pick up a diamond on the turn, it's time to fold. When the BB unexpectedly shows strength when the K comes on the turn, it's hard to believe he can't beat K2.

Preflop, there is a time and a place for Kxs. Is this it? Three limpers seems not enough, although in the loose passive game you describe, it can't be a very big mistake to expect the three behind you not to raise and for you go for a flush draw. Then again, it is only 8 handed driving this marginal hand's value down a little.


Flop, you are in this to flop a flush draw, and you do not. However, I too would likely peel one off, getting 12:1 to see a diamond, K, or T fall on the turn. Now the beauty of hindsight analysis. The K and T that give you a straight draw may complete someone else's straight. Hopefully you peeked at the button and felt he would not raise. I think there are a LOT of hands I would raise with on the button here, trying to see the river cheaply on a draw and that has to be considered for your call. Could it be this flop call cost you two big bets?.


Turn & river, having gotten this far, I like your raise, as it puts in your turn and river bets, gives you a shot at the pot now, and lets you easily fold to a raise or river bet when you don't improve. Maybe bb lays down a weak K, but I doubt it as he called the flop bet out of position - he likes his hand. Checking behind on the river when you don't improve is also good.


Looking forward to the results and any comments by you.

If you think you have the best hand more than 2 times out of 10 here, your raise on the turn is a good play. If BB's a passive player, your odds probably aren't nearly that good, however. It's mostly a judgement call regarding how opportunistic (maybe "suicidal" is more accurate /images/wink.gif) you think the BB would be with a Q J and/or straight draw here when the whole field is left to call him after he bets.

I wouldn't play that hand in the first place. Although a lot of experts/players say in a loose-passive game, to play any two suited cards in late position is most of the time a good play, I won't play em.


Reason being...if the flop doesn't flop a flush draw for me, but drops a K, I am tempted to stay in the hand, although I am probably beat with my weak kicker.


I disagree with playing ANY 2 suited cards...unless you are in the blinds.


Billy