SnG situation in Omaha/8- what would you do?

[Easy E]

This is from a post on UPF:

"I had exactly this situation come up last night in a $10+$1 O8 SnG, and I thought I'd get your opinions on my play.

Blinds are $150/$300 and we're down to 4 handed (top 3 pay). This is at Party, so there are T8,000 chips in play. Seat 1 has about T7,500 (this is not a misprint). I am in Seat 2 with about T470. Seat 3 has T21 and Seat 4 has T9 chips.

I am OTB and get dealt AA4K double suited. Seats 3 and 4 are all in in the Blinds, but the bully big stack raises to 600 and the action is now on me. What do I do? The big stack is very solid and knows what hands play well in O8, and probably has something to raise with. If I fold, and he scoops I automatically pick up the 2nd place prize of $30. If I call, I am all in with the remote possibility of finishing 4th and out of the money if both the small stacks pick up any part of the pot. I would absolutely kill myself if I didn't cash 99.99% of the time when faced with this situation. "

I don't play online, but I assume the prizes would be $60/$30/$10 for this?

What is your action here?

[Phil Van Sexton]

Automatic fold. It will be 6 hands before you are blinded off. I doubt the shortstacks can survive 6 straight all-ins.

Even if you scoop this pot, it's still 7000-1000 and you are likely out in 2nd anyway.

[SoonerJohn]

I can understand the tough decision, but I would push all-in with that hand. I'm looking to win every tournament I'm in.

Also, I believe the payouts are 50/30/20.

[Abagadro]

I disagree. At some point, you just need to maxmized your money. Even if you win, you only have approx. 3BB (one of which you will immediately have to post) and be down 7-1. That's just not a good enough position to risk a very good shot at cashing 2nd.

Fold.

[Profit]

if i'm one of the players with under 21 chips, I love it when you go all in on this hand. I see this happen so often. Yesterday i was down to 450 tournament chips with blinds 300-150 and utg. I fold and the second chip stack gets eliminated by the bigger chip stack. Next hand i post 300 bb, get dealt aq, go all in and lose to big stack's k5. So i got 3rd place money when i would have been blinded out in 4th place.

In this situation i fold 100% of the time. with blinds as big as they are, if you have 500 or 1,000 when it gets heads up, there's going to have to be some luck involved most likely. By folding your chances of getting second are that much greater, You already admitted that the big stack is a good player, good chance he will eliminate atleast one of the small stacks right?

[carpola]

Folding has to be +EV here. Although I'd do it reluctantly.

[fnurt]

If this were Holdem and you held AA, it might be a more interesting question. But this is Omaha, and even a hand as nice as yours isn't likely to be better than a 2-1 favorite even against pure trash. In addition, because it is a split pot game, that gives the small stacks an extra way to survive.

No offense to the poster who "always plays to win," but calling here is like giving away money.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
If this were Holdem and you held AA, it might be a more interesting question. But this is Omaha, and even a hand as nice as yours isn't likely to be better than a 2-1 favorite even against pure trash. In addition, because it is a split pot game, that gives the small stacks an extra way to survive.

No offense to the poster who "always plays to win," but calling here is like giving away money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got to agree with all points made.

[SoonerJohn]

I didn't advise him to do it, I just said thats what I would do.

The smart thing to do is fold here, but I wouldn't.

I'm also curious as to what the BB had. I would have put him on a mediocre hand such as K25Q.

[Easy E]

Not many details, but this is what GoBears posted:

<font color="green"> My choice - I folded, and watched the bully pick up the majority of the pot, but the micro stack in Seat 4 got part of the pot to double up to T18. I would've taken the high with trip Aces. So, now we're down to 3 handed, and I've got the same T470 UTG with the guy in Seat 4 all in for the SB. I get rags and fold. They split and now I'm in the BB with T170 left. The micro stack OTB folds and the bully raises (of course he does - he's a good player). I fold knowing the small stack is all in again for his 18 chips and even when I post the SB I'll have T20 left to my name if I fold. Bully raises, I fold my rags and watch them split the pot again!!!

To make a short story long, I can't survive and go out in 3rd while watching the 2nd place finisher laught while holding a stack of T18.

Weak tight? Made the worst of a good situation? Comments please! " </font>

So, if he had called, he would have had stayed about the same in chip count- he didn't say, but I assume his low was beaten.
As to whether he SHOULD have called? If his random hand outlasts the small stacks' random hands, he gets second. I still think it's a call here- the chance of BOTH players holding on and you busting out are so small, I'd take the strength of the hand and gamble.

[37offsuit]

Well, you likely have the best hand going in so what we need to figure out is how this can play out. Your only real worry though is finishing fourth in this hand. If you beat the big stack for either the high or the low, then you still have chips left.

If you bust out at the same time as either of the small stack here, you should finish in the money because you had more chips when the hand started.

I'm having trouble even figuring out what kind of hands/board combination would knock you out here without taking both the small stacks out, putting you in 2nd.

On the other hand, you have a great hand for knocking out at least one of the small stacks, if not both, and a decent chance of beating the big stack as well, giving you somewhat of a fighting chance at first.

So I'd call here and take my chances.