Double Shootout - Different Strategy?

[Poker Jon]

Hi All,

I am going to be competing in the stars Double Shootout Satellites to the WCOOP.

I am a successful SNG player on Stars with a ROI of about 40% - mainly at the $10 and $20 level.

Do you use a different strategy for the double shootout tourneys as you have to secure first place in the inital SNG to get to the final table?

Also, if you get to the final table, would you recommend going for glory of first, or would you try and do a deal between 1st and 2nd or maybe even 1st 2nd and 3rd.

The difference in prize money is huge between 1st and 2nd ($2500 to $38), that surely its got to be worth doing a deal, rather than gambling the best part of $2500 on a coin flip etc etc.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Cheers

Jon

[eMarkM]

Obviously, in first round action, you're going for outright win, so no limping to 3rd place money as you might in regular SNG.

I absolutely would be ammenable to a deal once it got down to final 3. As long as you're not getting ripped off, I would settle for a HU chop if it came down to that.

[Poker Jon]

Obviously seeing as you are going for 1st place in the opening round, should I be making more marginal calls seeing as my goal is for 1st place as opposed to trying to make 3rd?

Should I try and buil;d a stack early, or play more conventionally and wait for others to knock each other out before making my moves?

In my normal sit and go I will usually play conservatively before 50/100. I am wondering whether the same tactics will work here?

Anyone who has played in these and has any info would be grateful?

Also, what sort of deals would you guys suggest both 3 handed and 2 handed? 2 handed I think 50/50 should be the only way (providing you both have reasonable chip counts), but 3 handed I think it should be more chip related.

Cheers

Jon

[Nemesis]

where do you play these shootouts?

[Profit]

it probably wouldnt hurt to observe a few before you participate in one. Check out which strategies seem to work best as well as any type of deal making.

[Jason Strasser]

Does stars allow you to chop the cash in a sat? Obviously they want entrants to their main event, so doesn't one person have to buy the buy-in off another person?

[Poker Jon]

Poker stars - where the WCOOp is being held

[Poker Jon]

Hmmm - good point.

Anyone have any info on this?

[Profit]

[ QUOTE ]
Does stars allow you to chop the cash in a sat? Obviously they want entrants to their main event, so doesn't one person have to buy the buy-in off another person?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what i was assuming when u mentioned a deal....

[Poker Jon]

I was assuming that you could do a deal and get 'tourney' dollars for it?

[Profit]

hmmm, your best bet is probably just to email support and ask what if any options there are in this situation

[fnurt]

I have never seen a deal where one person didn't end up taking the seat in the end.

I assume once you have a seat, you can "unregister" and take the full buy-in in tourney dollars, just like with any other tournament. I could be wrong!

[TylerD]

WCOOP dollars HAVE to be used for the WCOOP, Stars want to fill their gurantees. You can (as far as I'm aware) sell $WCOOP for cash, either to friends or on 2+2, RGP etc.

[storm]

The WCOOP entries when un registered turn to W$'s which can only be used in WCOOP events or other special events like WPT + WSOP. You may sell them for cash just e-mail support. Unfortunately they can not be used the same as T$. Any unused balance should be available to be used in any of their special events like WPT + WSOP.
As for strategy I won my 1'st entry last night. Strategy is relevant to your opponents as at any table you sit at. With the blinds raising only every 15 min. as opposed to 10 in reg s+g I suggest tighten up early and get a read on your opponents. This also sets you up to steal pots when blinds are bigger and pots are more important. Stay out of unnecessary conflicts. Tournament chips are to valuable. For me it is less important to accumulate chips early then it is to see others eliminated. Others will eliminate people for you. One of the most important thing in these double shoot outs or s+g’s in general is to get to 3 or 4 players. Once here you formulate your strategy based on your stack and position. You should now know who you can rob blinds from and who is going to be raising out of position into you. You must be a strong short handed player and with 3 or 4 players left you have a new goal getting to and staying around 4000 chips remember with blinds raising slowly this amount will be 15 to 30 times the BB and about a third of all available chips, a very comfortable amount. Now with 4000 chips and 3 opponents all you have to do is last to heads up play. IMHO the single most important skill in a double shootout is to be a better heads up player then most of your opponents. The concepts of the game are so different between full table, short handed play, and heads up. Not understanding the differences is IMHO the #1 reason great players struggle to win tournaments and if your not making it to the top 3 of tournaments you are probably not a profitable tourney player.
Now you win the 1'st one. No problem you played average players and came out on top. Now you face 8 other players coming off a win and obviously capable of winning. 1 or 2 of them got lucky and won't last long but the other 6 or 7 are going to be tough. I still think playing a tight game and keeping your stack close to average early then changing gears still avoiding risky situations mid game and surviving till play is heads up knowing you are a stronger heads up player is a solid strategy. Remember you only have to eliminate 1 guy to win.
If you want to play in WCOOP main events this is by far one of the best ways to get there. I’m sure I will see you in the qualifiers . GL

[TylerD]

Sounds like very sound advice, thanks.

(Would appreciate paragraphs in future though!)

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Does stars allow you to chop the cash in a sat? Obviously they want entrants to their main event, so doesn't one person have to buy the buy-in off another person?

[/ QUOTE ]

i doubt you can chop it. then again, i could be wrong. they may allow it if you're playing a cash satellite. i won a seat into their $200 + $15 $250,000 Guaranteed Sunday tourney a couple of weeks ago playing a 500 Frequent Player Points satellite and you had the option to unregister and get the $215 entry as Tourney Dollars; however, it was'nt actual cash.

[Ro-me-ro]

Hi guys,

You can make deals, but there are a few restrictions:

Since the seat being played for is for the WCOOP and is a PokerStars Special Event the $2600 seat can be split into W$.

W$ can be used to enter further WCOOP satellites/MTT/SnG/D-S etc... anything that can qualify you for WCOOP events. You could use them directly to buy into some of the smaller events, or you can sell them to another player for real $.

If you happen to be in the position to be wanting to deal at the final stages of a satellite send an email to support@pokerstars.com and include a subject line: "URGENT CHOP IN T#1234567" where 1234567 is the tournament number in question. We lookout for such emails during busier periods and respond to them as a matter of high priority.

If you have any further questions about deals or W$ just send an email to support and we will be happy to assist.

Best of fortunes to you all,

Ellis
PokerStars Support.