differences in play with late positon posters

I'm still working on determining the best way to play with a hand (and how hand values change) when you have a someone posting behind the button or even with two posters.


In a typical somewhat loose aggressive 9-handed 20-40 game online how would you play A10o utg, if there is someone posting from middle position?


I folded although I think its close between raising and folding, calling just seems like weak poker to me in this spot.


What would you do with a hand like Axs in this position does it now become playable, at what point does it become playable and do you think it is better to raise or just call and try to build a nice multiway pot? I'm also not sure how to play hands like QJs KJs, KQ, KJ, However I tend to fold or raise since calling announces that you don't have a really big hand because


BTW these questions are especially relevant to online poker because there is much more posting behind the button online.


thanks,


Shawn Keller

Shawn,


I don't play A-To UTG, poster or not. I gotta be really on tilt(which I rarely am) to even want to play this hand, worst case scenario: raise it but with so many players yet to act, you're askin' for trouble. As for A-xs, this has always been a trouble hand for me, I historically limp with it far to frequently though I've improved on this quite a bit recently; so when I say it may not be such a bad limp from early position, hoping to draw in others and that the post may protect you from loose raises, be advised that my thinking may be wrong on this(I also would like to know what others think). As to the other hands, I'd usually limp (occasionally raise) with the big suited connectors(trying for volume), I limp with KQ(though again maybe more often than I should), and the K-Jo you mentioned is trash, never limp with it in early position(raising isn't much better), go ahead and try to steal with it in late position.

BTW, I think this stuff is important online(though I don't often play online) not only because of more posters, but because when you can't see your opponents, its that much more difficult to "outplay" them and it becomes even more important to play "technically correct." I too, look forward to other posts.


Mike

I agree with you in that ATo is trash under the gun. As for KQo, I try to muck it most of the time in early position. If you are going to play it, I think it is better to raise than to just call with it. If you raise, you can sometimes win the blinds, and often you will limit the field. If you just call, you often encourage other people to limp in. KQo definately isn't that strong against a large field.

As for AXs, I like the hand more in a loose passive game (like our 10-20 game at the Harrah's.) I don't like it in more aggressive games (like our $20-40's). I'm more tempted to play any pair in any position in our type of game. Since the game is pretty aggressive, you can expect to win big pots when you flop a set. I like pairs better than AxS because pairs are easy to get away from. You just fold on the flop if you miss. Playing Axs has to increase your fluctuations. If you do flop a flush draw, you often will have to invest several bets to try to make the flush.

What do you do when you flop an ace with Ax suited? I hate having kicker problems. Against certain players, it is easy to muck a bad ace, but how do you play an A7s against a fish? Many times you have to call them down as they like to bet second pair or pocket pairs, but I feel stupid when I lose to an A8o or A9o.

Ted,


I don't like the raise in early position w/ KQ, I think its better to let worse K's and Q's in and I don't like giving up control if I've raised preflop with players behind me, this hand is pretty easy for me to get away from with a bad flop, I almost never chase to hit an overcard w/ this hand, besides I think if you limp with this hand and hit it people "believe" you more and are less inclined to make a "play" against you, its therefore easier to get away from if need be even if you flop a pair. When I was first playing, this and AJ were two of the hands that I considered likely for early limps from solid players, I've since learned that many solid players won't play these hands with the same frequency that I'm inclined to; incidently I feel as if I do better w/ KQ than AJ for a few reasons that I won't go into now.

As for A-xs, as I said, it has long been a trouble hand for me for all the reasons that you mentioned and I have concentrated more recently on eliminating it from my early position play.


See ya at the boat soon,


Mike

Shawn, I think if you are going to play in these situations you need to open with a raise. It is imperative to drive out the other players and get it down to just you and the players who have random cards (small blind, big blind, posters). It is worth over-playing your hand in these situations because of all the additional money in the pot put in by players with random holdings. A raise might also get some guy with a better hand than yours to fold since he may not want to call two bets cold.


I have submitted a couple of articles to CardPlayer, one on playing against a straddle bet and the other on playing with "extra money in the pot" which covers late position posting. These should be coming out some time early next year.

I think all the hands you describe are trash and should be mucked. Especially in the aggressive 20-40 online games. I don't remember if you mention big suited cards. KQs and AJs are nice calls. I'll sometimes raise AJs as well. All others are a bit to weak. KJ in a loose passive game is playable.


Axs is a hand that used to trouble me in the past. Its garbage. It just looks pretty. I have eliminated it from my early positon play. Same with KQ off. Although alot better than Axs. Just not good enough. I used to play it in early position, but now feel it is to weak to play up front. KJ off forgedaboutit! Bigtime crap in early position. There is too much chance that there will be a hand out behind you that can dominate these hands that make it a bad call or raise.


Btw, as far as the posters. I will be more inclined to play small pairs because it now looks like you'll have a big volume pot to try to spike a set. Other drawing hands are still to weak to play up front. May J10s if the game is passive.

w/A10d against 2 posters in 20-40 game absolutely raise hoping to cut the field down to blinds and posters where %wise you hold the superior hand over their random hands and such a powerful raise represents a superior hand which can cause others to fold better holdings facing a double-poster raiser.