Recent bothersome hand

Here's a hand that I had the other day that's bothering me a bit. 9 handed game, I'm in SB with QQ. The game has been pretty loose and passive before the flop, but kind of aggressive after the flop. A weak middle position player (MP) limps, cutoff limps, I raise. BB folds, other 2 call. The cutoff is a good player who limps with a variety of hands - he could have any 2 suited cards, 2 connected cards, or two cards above 10. He figures that he can give up some before the flop to make it back later. He would raise most strong hands, especially in this position.


Flop comes K-K-6 (rainbow).


I bet, MP folds, cutoff raises. I reraise. He calls.


Turn 6.


I was going to bet it, but as soon as the card hit the table, the guy bets out (out of turn). What do you do?


I'll post my results later.

I would ignore the fact that he bet out of turn. In fact, it looks suspicious. You have shown all the strength so far with your preflop raise out of position and flop reraise. The six does not figure to have helped your hand and it looks to him like you have ace-king. I think you should bet the turn and fold if he raises.

I'm not sure I agree with betting into the player who has bet out of turn. Either way, one bet goes in, you can't get raised on the turn by the player if he wants to do so and check the river; and calling his turn bet, while not quite as threatening as a call with a board like this can sometimes be, might deter the player from trying to steal on the river, it may also induce a bluff. If raised on the turn, I think that you must call sometimes as this tricky(but not necessarily so "good") player (given his usual preflop play) might sometimes try to represent a K against a preflop raiser who is likely to have a big pair or A-big(no K).


BTW, because of situations like these, I'm ambivalent about raising a hand such as Q-Q out of the blinds when there is more than one limper, I think that concealing the strength of the hand makes more money postflop and allows me to get away from an ugly flop cheaper given my poor position.


Mike

Against typical players his chance of bluffing has gone way up. That's because he should know that you will bet into him and if his hand is really strong he would raise. Thus you should let his bet stand and of course call. On the river you should check again (no matter what hits) and make sure you call.


If you insist that you are first to act, make him withdraw his bet, and he is bluffing, he will just fold. So you might lose two big bets.


By the way in my book POKER ESSAYS I describe a hand which is somewhat similar. In that example, a player holding the nuts on the river made his opponent withdraw his bet because he was first to act. The opponent then folded to the bet.

I agree with Sunglasses Mike's pre-flop limp for exactly the same reasons. No ace or king hit the board, I have a very good chance to win the hand and can play aggressively. Very happy if a jack or ten hit the board.


Also, the out of turn bet does not sound that suspicious to me. I would assume he has KJ or KT and wins the pot. Once one king hits the board the EV on your pair of queens goes way down, so limit the amount of money you put in the pot. You may want to save your money for a better opportunity.

If the cutoff is a solid player, I doubt he would bet out of turn with the K. Depends on the player, but possible hands are A kick with K's up or perhaps a 6 with 76s, or perhaps 77 or 88. Anything else would have been most likely raised preflop.


Smells like a bad play on his part. I guess he is trying to eek out extra value for his BB in betting out of trun by trying to induce a fold.


I would still bet the turn and call it down if raised. You might even get him to lay it with a turn bet.

Loose player bets out of turn at my quads on the river. I make a check-raise without even trying and gain a free bet. I would have bet and been called otherwise. I can't imagine someone doing what you describe above. What was the player's reasoning? Is he just a rules freak?

Besides this particular situation on the turn, why would want to tell your opponent to take his bet back? In essense he is giving you position on this round. (unless he is playing the bet out of turn, so you check then he checks game). But usually this is done because he thinks (expects) you to check.


I think either he's bluffing or you are drawing to a two outer (if that) in this particular situation. So I think checking and calling is the way to go.