Playing Midpairs Up Front at 10-20

These hands seem to give me more trouble than many others. In a typical 10-20 game (in my case, at the Taj), would you raise UTG or in early position with a hand like 8's, 9's or 10's. I understand the logic for doing so (prefer to be head's up if you're not getting mutliway action, which you are not likely to in most 10-20 games I've played in). So I raise, and unless I flop a set, I usually find myself making costly mistakes. Here's an example.


Pre-flop, I raise UTG with pocket 8's. The button cold calls, and we are heads up. Flop comes A-6-5 rainbow. I have to bet, right? I bet, he calls. Ok, is this hand over for me? What could he have called with without an ace? Meanwhile, I stupidly continue betting the turn, he calls me down the whole (bricks on turn and river) with A9s. Who played this hand worse, and in the future what can I do to avoid this mistake? I was almost hoping he'd raise so I could fold. But with my pre-flop raise, is it logical to check the flop? Should I try a check-raise bluff? What are my options here? Are there any advocates of folding these hands in tight aggressive games from an early position? I haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet. Any thoughts appreciated.


Jeff

Jeff-


I think it's perfectly acceptable strategy to limp with 99 and 88. Yes. These hands play better heads-up, but they also play well multi-way. And as your finding out, they can be difficult to play out of position when you do get called. Another benefit to limping, is that you can often get away from your hand cheaply, while the potential remains to really sneak up on somebody when you do flop a set.


TT is kinda my dividing line. I'm about 65% more likely to raise with TT than 99. I'll also raise with 99 and 88 sometimes depending on the game and to vary my play. I think it's a mis-nomer that 99 and 88 SHOULD be raised up front, and I think many people make this play far too often and cost themselves in the process.


As for what to do on the turn with an ace on board... Much depends on the opponent. What would he call two cold pre-flop and a bet on an ace high flop that doesn't beat 88?


I try to check/raise the turn often enough with AK so that my checks on the turn don't necessarily mean weakness. I feel it's worth the risk of a missed bet (while sometimes gaining two), so that I can sometimes check hands like 99 without getting out-played. If you do feel your hand is best, it's important to bet since there are many over-cards which kill you. You can probably check QQ or even JJ a little more safely. But you should keep in mind that once you start trying to represent hands which you don't have, it becomes harder to stop with each passing street and you usually wind betting someone else's hand or trapping yourelf. IMO-

I consider raising up front with JJ-88 in a typical moderately loose 10-20 game to be pretty much the same as raising with a medium suited connector: it's made to vary your play a little, since it is not that likely to actually create a favorable situation for you on the flop. Usually what happens is that you get a sandwich position in the middle of 3 callers, miss your set with an overcard or two, and then feel bad about folding because the pot has gotten big. Or you feel even worse when you continue after missing (maybe there is only 1 overcard and it's become heads up), and then get shown the obvious hand which beats you after paying a few more bets.


Anyway, I think you should usually bet the flop in your hand, and I agree with Kevin that you can often check fold your 8's on the turn, because you should be doing some check raising with AK AQ AA in the same spot. If you do bet the turn and get called, I think that's the last money you should put in the pot barring a 9 on the river.


If up front in a very tight aggressive game, I probably don't play 88 or lower, raise 50% with 99-TT, raise 100% with JJ-QQ, and raise 83% with KK-AA (I prepick a specific suit combo to limp with, which gives a 1/6 chance to limp with AA-KK). But more importantly, I start looking for another game. /images/wink.gif

Coilean, you said


"and (I) raise 83% with KK-AA (I prepick a specific suit combo to limp with, which gives a 1/6 chance to limp with AA-KK.


I don't understand why you would ever limp with AA or KK. It certainly won't vary your play. You only get each about once every 6 hours so it's impossible for your opponents to put you on AA or KK when you raise if you're also raising with other strong hands (QQ, JJ, AKs, etc.)


Wouldn't it be better to vary your play by sometimes raising with hands like AQs and AJs and only limping other times? You could raise with diamonds or hearts and limp with clubs or spades.


That way, you could always raise with AA and KK which I'm sure we'll both agree is +EV play.

I usually only raise with TT and limp with 99 or 88 most of the time. But, raising isn't incorrect.


I'd bet out on the flop and make a judgement call. If I think my opponet would only call if he had an Ace, then I'd check/fold on the turn. You've got to learn how to release these hands.