WHAT WOULD YOU DO? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

BlackAces

06-13-2004, 12:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$5 SNG, down to 3 players and you're shortstacked with a little over 900 in chips, blinds 100/200 25 ante, holding a pair of 9s.

what would you do?

i went all-in; however, my girlfriend berated after i lost the hand. i got called by the second chipleader who had Ace 10 and he flopped an Ace. she feels that i should have called 200, folded, or waited to the very end---(die trying).

her argument's foundation comes from the fact that i waited until i was down to my last 225 in chips with 5 players left and happened to win the hand.

*correction: she says i should have folded because a pair of 9s at this point in the SNG IS NOT A GOOD HAND. i was not in the blind and did not need to get involved and could have held back to wait for better cards and placed better than 3rd by doing so.*

[/ QUOTE ]
That's absolute crap. 99 is a great hand three-handed. What did she want you to do, wait for aces or kings? Were you supposed to fold tens and jacks as well? Fact is, at that point with your stack, pretty much ANY pair is a hand you should be pushing with on the button.

Limping is dumb as well, because you don't want to get pushed off your hand when an overcard flops (and it probably will), and then you've lost over a fifth of your stack, and have to put a third of what's left into the pot next hand.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 12:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$5 SNG, down to 3 players and you're shortstacked with a little over 900 in chips, blinds 100/200 25 ante, holding a pair of 9s.

what would you do?

i went all-in; however, my girlfriend berated after i lost the hand. i got called by the second chipleader who had Ace 10 and he flopped an Ace. she feels that i should have called 200, folded, or waited to the very end---(die trying).

her argument's foundation comes from the fact that i waited until i was down to my last 225 in chips with 5 players left and happened to win the hand.

*correction: she says i should have folded because a pair of 9s at this point in the SNG IS NOT A GOOD HAND. i was not in the blind and did not need to get involved and could have held back to wait for better cards and placed better than 3rd by doing so.*

[/ QUOTE ]
That's absolute crap. 99 is a great hand three-handed. What did she want you to do, wait for aces or kings? Were you supposed to fold tens and jacks as well? Fact is, at that point with your stack, pretty much ANY pair is a hand you should be pushing with on the button.

Limping is dumb as well, because you don't want to get pushed off your hand when an overcard flops (and it probably will), and then you've lost over a fifth of your stack, and have to put a third of what's left into the pot next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

and her reply is, "And that's why he lost. nothing in you all's reply has convinced me yet. the question is, 'With two other players with over 4K in chips apiece, why even bother with getting involved in the hand with 900 in chips when you don't have to, especially if you're shortstacked and not in the blind?' let them duke it out".

BlackAces

06-13-2004, 12:19 AM

And if they know anything at all about poker, they WON'T duke it out...they're going to target the short stack (that's you) first. Waiting for a hand is a losing strategy by a mile.

And don't play results. It makes you a worse player.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 12:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And if they know anything at all about poker, they WON'T duke it out...they're going to target the short stack (that's you) first. Waiting for a hand is a losing strategy by a mile.

And don't play results. It makes you a worse player.

[/ QUOTE ]

remember that what i am posting is coming from her mouth. i don't play that way, i play to win. my obvious choice was ALL-IN in that spot.

AlekzanderZ

06-13-2004, 12:31 AM

I think you did the good play, pocket 9 is a good hand and you had to double up to be in good position to win de tournament. Of course, you could wait until one of your opponent make a mistake and finish third but your objective is to finish in first place so... you have to react and be aggressive with your good hand. Nice play!

AlekzanderZ ShanZ

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
And if they know anything at all about poker, they WON'T duke it out...they're going to target the short stack (that's you) first. Waiting for a hand is a losing strategy by a mile.

And don't play results. It makes you a worse player.

[/ QUOTE ]

her thoughts on your reply is, "He had nothing to lose by folding. you cannot assume anything about the next hand. if you're gonna lose your 900 in chips, at least go out fighting. why give your hand away by playing a pair of 9s on one play that he did'nt have to play at all. if you know anything about poker, you also should know there are other ways to play. it was a bad play, and the end result, i was right".

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 12:39 AM

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I think you did the good play, pocket 9 is a good hand and you had to double up to be in good position to win de tournament. Of course, you could wait until one of your opponent make a mistake and finish third but your objective is to finish in first place so... you have to react and be aggressive with your good hand. Nice play!

AlekzanderZ ShanZ

[/ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said is, "Nice play? but you lost!"

Jsb

06-13-2004, 12:59 AM

your lady friend is only looking at the results then.
over time, you made the correct play.
the reason you should push with pocket nines is because a large percentage of the time, your opponents will fold to your all in raise, so it is actually advantageous that you are not in the blinds here, because you are the first to act. and even if they do call, unless they have a higher pocket pair (which they clearly will not most of the time) you are at the worst in a coinflip situation. so most of the time you will take the blinds, and the rest of the time, you rather often double up.
the reason they will fold most of the time is because of the gap concept, they need a better hand to call your all in than they would to push you all in. how big are their stacks? if they are much bigger, as it sounds like they are, if they are good players, they will sense weakness when you merely try to limp in, and they will raise you. in this situation you're much better off just pushing, because then they will often fold.
when its down to three in a sit and go, you need to be very agressive, and just limping with pocket nines seems weak to me.
just because it happened to not work this time definitely does not make it the incorrect play.

eastbay

06-13-2004, 01:09 AM

BradleyT

06-13-2004, 02:01 AM

http://rwa.homelinux.net/poker/hand-rankings.html courtesy of east bay.

What are you going to do, wait for one of the 6 better hands? Um, ok.

SoonerJohn

06-13-2004, 02:12 AM

Either raising all-in or folding was the correct play. I'd have gone all-in personally.

Looking at the other guys hand, if you would have made the minimum bet, you were getting raised to 900 anyway with an A-10. Then you are stuck with either losing 200 of your stack or calling. Of course you call at that point.

Plus, If he didn't have a decent hand, why would you want to give him a cheap flop and chance to make a hand?

All-in was the right choice.

Girazze

06-13-2004, 02:52 AM

Watch her the next time she plays......and then AFTER the result, tell her how foolish her bet was.

AlekzanderZ

06-13-2004, 03:09 AM

In the circonstance it was a good play, 99 its better then A10 before the flop, if he go all in he have the best hand and the possibility of your opponent fold. Hes hand was the best and its what im always considering when i play even if i loose. In poker, you have to make good decision, if your decision was good, like this one, and you loose after all thats nothing you can do but it still a good play in the circonstance (low stack, mp, blinds expensive).

HajiShirazu

06-13-2004, 03:39 AM

Lol, a pair of nines? And there's a question? With 99 I would be mad to take down the blinds, I WANT somebody to call! I would move in here with Q9o!

Grivan

06-13-2004, 05:21 AM

Move in. Theres not even room for argument. If you move in here you are likely to win the blinds. If you don't win the blinds you are likely to get called by something like Ax lower then A9 and have a HUGE chance of doubling up. If you double up you have 1800 chips and second has 3100 not far behind at all.

If you fold you have approximatly 7 hands to get a hand to double up with before you are blinded to death. Its not going to happen, and even if it does you will have so few chips that doubling up won't help you.

The most common mistake in these SNGs is not being aggresive enough. Going all in every hand would be a lot closer to the correct strategy then folding every hand would be. You the short stack. You are the person who needs a little luck and for something to happen.

gergery

06-13-2004, 05:54 AM

1. I'd stop playing $5 sng - the rake is too high (if Party)
2. I'd stop listening to my girlfriend's bad poker advice.
3. I'd patiently explain that poker is a game of percentages, and given the range of hands your opponents could have, might call with and your chances of winning if they do are extremely good in comparison to the hands you are likely to get in the near future.

Peter Harris

06-13-2004, 05:57 AM

i'm with ligastar. In the next 3 hands you'll be blinded to insignificance.

Also, in the next 3 hands, what on earth kind of hand is likely to come along that's BETTER than 99?

Only AA-TT, or A-high if called by A-low. and they ain't coming to save you. with 4.5BB and 99 3-way, this is an easy first-to-act push. I would do it every time. Without fail.

While your girlfriend may like the sit-and-wait approach 3-way, when i have few chips and a monster like that, i will be pushing to boost my stack. 3rd or 1st, never a 2nd.

Regards,
Pete Harris

BlackAces

06-13-2004, 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you did the good play, pocket 9 is a good hand and you had to double up to be in good position to win de tournament. Of course, you could wait until one of your opponent make a mistake and finish third but your objective is to finish in first place so... you have to react and be aggressive with your good hand. Nice play!

AlekzanderZ ShanZ

[/ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said is, "Nice play? but you lost!"

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there's your problem. Nice plays DO lose from time to time. Doesn't mean they're not nice plays.

I suppose if you'd run into 88 and doubled up, she'd be saying what a brilliant play it was.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 09:15 AM

my girlfriend's response is, "All i've heard is ifs, maybes, and possibilities, and different scenarios. the end result is he still lost and i did'nt wait until after he played the 9s to say the same thing. i have been saying it for awhile now. if everybody read from the same poker book, they already know what you're gonna do. there's more than one way to play poker and i made over a million in chips and won SNGs and money in ring games without reading a damn poker book. i'm not disputing what you guys are saying, i just feel there is more than one way to play poker and win."

PrayingMantis

06-13-2004, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
my girlfriend's response is, "All i've heard is ifs, maybes, and possibilities, and different scenarios. the end result is he still lost and i did'nt wait until after he played the 9s to say the same thing. i have been saying it for awhile now. if everybody read from the same poker book, they already know what you're gonna do. there's more than one way to play poker and i made over a million in chips and won SNGs and money in ring games without reading a damn poker book. i'm not disputing what you guys are saying, i just feel there is more than one way to play poker and win."

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell your girlfriend, that if her boyfriend is not going to push with 99 when he's short stacked, ITM, with BB more than 20% his stack, AND in a 5$ SNG, she's not going to see any significant money coming from her boyfriend's hobby.

BTW,

What do you think about your girlfriend's "advice"? Do you agree with it? Do you think it's stupid? If so, why do you keep repeating it, as if what's she says is much more important than what YOU think?

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you did the good play, pocket 9 is a good hand and you had to double up to be in good position to win de tournament. Of course, you could wait until one of your opponent make a mistake and finish third but your objective is to finish in first place so... you have to react and be aggressive with your good hand. Nice play!

AlekzanderZ ShanZ

[/ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said is, "Nice play? but you lost!"

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, there's your problem. Nice plays DO lose from time to time. Doesn't mean they're not nice plays.

I suppose if you'd run into 88 and doubled up, she'd be saying what a brilliant play it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

her response is, "That's not true. i still would have asked the same question, 'What would he have to lose by folding?' the reason he got 3rd place was because he sat back and listened to my advice just one time and won the hand."

*hand in question: earlier, down to my last 225 in chips, i got A Q, with the blinds at 100/200 and was all-in. the guy who called flopped a pair (three spades on the flop, my Queen was a spade so i had a spade draw) so i was behind in the hand. the turn was an x card but the river bought a spade and i doubled up off the flush. i'd also like to note that i really had no choice but to sit back and be blinded down to 225 because i had just lost 75% of my chips when i called an all-in preflop with Q Q only to see the guy turn up A A. none of my hands after that being shortstacked were worthy of going all-in*.

Stoneii

06-13-2004, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"That's not true. i still would have asked the same question, 'What would he have to lose by folding?' the reason he got 3rd place was because he sat back and listened to my advice just one time and won the hand."

[/ QUOTE ]

By that logic then your girlfriend implies that AQo is a better hand than 99 when quite simply it's not. In a race AQo against 99 - the 99 will win over 55% of the time. Therefore if it was advisable to push with AQo it is even better advice to push with 99.

G'Luck

stoneii

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my girlfriend's response is, "All i've heard is ifs, maybes, and possibilities, and different scenarios. the end result is he still lost and i did'nt wait until after he played the 9s to say the same thing. i have been saying it for awhile now. if everybody read from the same poker book, they already know what you're gonna do. there's more than one way to play poker and i made over a million in chips and won SNGs and money in ring games without reading a damn poker book. i'm not disputing what you guys are saying, i just feel there is more than one way to play poker and win."

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell your girlfriend, that if her boyfriend is not going to push with 99 when he's short stacked, ITM, with BB more than 20% his stack, AND in a 5$ SNG, she's not going to see any significant money coming from her boyfriend's hobby.

BTW,

What do you think about your girlfriend's "advice"? Do you agree with it? Do you think it's stupid? If so, why do you keep repeating it, as if what's she says is much more important than what YOU think?

[/ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said, "It's not about him and his play; it's about the game of poker and there are other ways to play and win. AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

(Desdia72): i don't play the way she plays. i'm more dedicated to learning the game in an effort to become a consistently profitable player. i have a lot more experience and success playing SNGs and winning/cashing in them than she does. she questions a lot of plays and moves i make. i can't say i really listen to her that much and she has a problem with that. a typical response from her would be, "you should have listened to me".

Kurn, son of Mogh

06-13-2004, 10:16 AM

With 4.5x BB left, you barely have enough chips left for your all-in to have any fold equity at all. If anything, you should have pushed with weaker hands than 99 an orbit or two sooner.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
With 4.5x BB left, you barely have enough chips left for your all-in to have any fold equity at all. If anything, you should have pushed with weaker hands than 99 an orbit or two sooner.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually Kurn, this was probably the second hand played ITM-down to 3 players.

Kurn, son of Mogh

06-13-2004, 10:23 AM

AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'

Formulating strategy based upon results is no way to play poker.

Jsb

06-13-2004, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"'AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

[/ QUOTE ]

man, yesterday, i was shortstacked all-in with pocket aces, and somebody drew out on me, and i ended up losing. clearly i should never try to go all-in preflop with pocket rockets.

Kurn, son of Mogh

06-13-2004, 10:34 AM

Then, your conservative play prior to this is understandable. Now that you're in the money, you have to accumulate more chips to move up. Unless you're happy blinding off and hoping the 2 big stacks get in a confrontation.

Again, 99 is a great hand 3 handed, and after the blinds pass you, you will always get called when you push in. At least here there's some chance your raise will win the blinds uncontested.

eastbay

06-13-2004, 10:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said, "It's not about him and his play; it's about the game of poker and there are other ways to play and win. AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

[/ QUOTE ]

My response to what she said: "She doesn't have the slightest understanding of poker. And the only conclusion from her string of inane comments is: SHE NEVER WILL!"

eastbay

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Then, your conservative play prior to this is understandable. Now that you're in the money, you have to accumulate more chips to move up. Unless you're happy blinding off and hoping the 2 big stacks get in a confrontation.

Again, 99 is a great hand 3 handed, and after the blinds pass you, you will always get called when you push in. At least here there's some chance your raise will win the blinds uncontested.

[/ QUOTE ]

also, my play was'nt exactly conservative. down to 5 players i called a huge preflop all-in with Q Q only to have the guy turn up A A. i had the guy outchipped by about 450 so even though my Queens did'nt improve, i still was in the game after i lost the hand. i eventually got blinded down to 225 in chips and was then able to get lucky on that hand holding A Q when i caught a spade on the river for a flush (the other guy flopped a pair and i was behind in the hand until the river). from that lucky double up, i was able to aggressive build my stack back up to over 2K being aggressive and getting lucky. i'm not above saying i was very lucky and thankful to even finish ITM in the first place.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said, "It's not about him and his play; it's about the game of poker and there are other ways to play and win. AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

[/ QUOTE ]

My response to what she said: "She doesn't have the slightest understanding of poker. And the only conclusion from her string of inane comments is: SHE NEVER WILL!"

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

she feels she does understand the game of poker. in her opinion, it does'nt matter if you're playing with play chips or real money--- poker is poker.

i try to discuss with her the reasons why i would make a certain play in this spot, but not the same play in another spot. example: she can't get why i would go all-in with a pair of 9s with 900 in chips with 3 players left when i would'nt make the same play with a full table. i try to tell her that if she does'nt get the difference between the two, then she has more to learn and understand about poker. she does'nt buy that argument. she feels that there are no set rules to poker.

Peter Harris

06-13-2004, 10:54 AM

there is indeed.

one way is by studying and learning that to push with 99 every time is +EV.

another play may still be winning poker. it just wins less.

Yeah, sometimes you lose with 99. If you never lost playing poker, you'd end up the only person who plays.

Your girlfriend has her playing style, that's fab. It seems like if she's weak enough to fold 99 here, i'd love her to sit at my table any day of the year.

Regards,
Pete Harris

tolbiny

06-13-2004, 10:56 AM

Formulating strategy based upon results is no way to play poker.

actually, formulating a strategy based upon results is the only way to play poker.... but fomulating a strategy based upon the results of 1 frickin hand is definately not the way to play poker.

eastbay

06-13-2004, 11:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said, "It's not about him and his play; it's about the game of poker and there are other ways to play and win. AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

[/ QUOTE ]

My response to what she said: "She doesn't have the slightest understanding of poker. And the only conclusion from her string of inane comments is: SHE NEVER WILL!"

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

she feels she does understand the game of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Her feeling is wrong.

[ QUOTE ]

in her opinion, it does'nt matter if you're playing with play chips or real money--- poker is poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that got to do with anything.

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i try to discuss with her the reasons why i would make a certain play in this spot, but not the same play in another spot. example: she can't get why i would go all-in with a pair of 9s with 900 in chips with 3 players left when i would'nt make the same play with a full table.
i try to tell her that if she does'nt get the difference between the two, then she has more to learn and understand about poker. she does'nt buy that argument. she feels that there are no set rules to poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then re-read my comment. The play is not a matter of opinion, and going on about it like it is, is a waste of everybody's time.

Like I said before, have her calculate the odds of being dealt a better hand before being blinded out.

Have her calculate the chipEV of pushing with 99 against a reasonable range of calling hands.

Make it a condition before making any further comments. Then consider the silence golden.

If she wasn't your gf, the appropriate response is: "you're a [censored] idiot. Just shut the hell up."

That she is, the appropriate response is: "ok, honey. When you're in that spot, you go ahead and play it your way, and I'll play it mine."

eastbay

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 11:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

her response to what you said, "It's not about him and his play; it's about the game of poker and there are other ways to play and win. AND THE END RESULT, 'HE STILL LOST'!"

[/ QUOTE ]

My response to what she said: "She doesn't have the slightest understanding of poker. And the only conclusion from her string of inane comments is: SHE NEVER WILL!"

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

she feels she does understand the game of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Her feeling is wrong.

[ QUOTE ]

in her opinion, it does'nt matter if you're playing with play chips or real money--- poker is poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that got to do with anything.

[ QUOTE ]

i try to discuss with her the reasons why i would make a certain play in this spot, but not the same play in another spot. example: she can't get why i would go all-in with a pair of 9s with 900 in chips with 3 players left when i would'nt make the same play with a full table.
i try to tell her that if she does'nt get the difference between the two, then she has more to learn and understand about poker. she does'nt buy that argument. she feels that there are no set rules to poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then re-read my comment. The play is not a matter of opinion, and going on about it like it is, is a waste of everybody's time.

Like I said before, have her calculate the odds of being dealt a better hand before being blinded out.

Have her calculate the chipEV of pushing with 99 against a reasonable range of calling hands.

Make it a condition before making any further comments. Then consider the silence golden.

If she wasn't your gf, the appropriate response is: "you're a [censored] idiot. Just shut the hell up."

That she is, the appropriate response is: "ok, honey. When you're in that spot, you go ahead and play it your way, and I'll play it mine."

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

hey, it was her idea to give you guys her views on other ways to play poker. we go at it all the time about the same thing. i am already a winning player. i've had way more success playing the way i play than playing the way she suggests. i told her, the only time these guys are gonna agree with you suggestion of folding 9s in this spot is if both of the chips leaders (who acted before you) both went all-in preflop with the same amount of chips. i this scenario, it's a n obvious laydown of the 9s because with both chipleaders all-in preflop with the same amount of chips, you're a lock to get 2nd place. other than that, i told her it's an obvious all-in and she's not gonna get too much support (if any) of her idea to fold in that spot.

Kurn, son of Mogh

06-13-2004, 11:28 AM

What I meant to say /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eastbay

06-13-2004, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]

hey, it was her idea to give you guys her views on other ways to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this isn't an art interpretation forum. Everybody's opinion isn't equally valid. Some plays win money and some plays lose money, period. This is one of those plays.

We aren't particulary interested in hearing about plays that lose money.

More likely it seems like you were looking for a way to counter what she was saying. So maybe it is you who needs to learn how to do some basic calculations.

eastbay

tolbiny

06-13-2004, 11:38 AM

WOW- Ok, apparently your girlfriend plays poker, apparently she is weak/tight. Unfortunately in a lot of low limit games weak tight will win you a small amount of money, and this small amount has convinced her that she knows how to play. Several times You have quoted her as saying (this is a paraphrase here) that there is "more than one way to play poker". This is not true. If you knew every players' cards at the table and how they were going to play them there would be one perfect way to play. YOur goal should be to use your knowledge to come as close as possible to this play. The only thing you know about you opponents hands is that they contain 2, random cards. If you have and idea about poker you know that 99 is a favorite over either of those two hands, and therefore folding is a bad play. If the person critizing your play cannont understand this concept, then there is no point trying to explain why limping is wrong.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

hey, it was her idea to give you guys her views on other ways to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this isn't an art interpretation forum. Everybody's opinion isn't equally valid. Some plays win money and some plays lose money, period. This is one of those plays.

We aren't particulary interested in hearing about plays that lose money.

More likely it seems like you were looking for a way to counter what she was saying. So maybe it is you who needs to learn how to do some basic calculations.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

whoooooaaaaa, slow down little hiawatha /images/graemlins/grin.gif! this has nothing to do with me needing to learn basic calculations. all of this was born out of her wish to let other players in on her opinions about playing and winning poker. SHE thought the play was stupid and did'nt need to be made in that spot. i told her she would be hard pressed to find someone who would agree with her on the idea of folding 9s in that spot so i decided to post her thoughts in 2+2 and the InternetTexasHoldem (ITM) forums.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 11:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
WOW- Ok, apparently your girlfriend plays poker, apparently she is weak/tight. Unfortunately in a lot of low limit games weak tight will win you a small amount of money, and this small amount has convinced her that she knows how to play. Several times You have quoted her as saying (this is a paraphrase here) that there is "more than one way to play poker". This is not true. If you knew every players' cards at the table and how they were going to play them there would be one perfect way to play. YOur goal should be to use your knowledge to come as close as possible to this play. The only thing you know about you opponents hands is that they contain 2, random cards. If you have and idea about poker you know that 99 is a favorite over either of those two hands, and therefore folding is a bad play. If the person critizing your play cannont understand this concept, then there is no point trying to explain why limping is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, she feels the right play was to fold. it's no question, IMO, to go all-in in that spot (which i did). i know that a pair of 9s in that spot is a more than good enough hand. her only part on limping is that if there is an Ace or other overcard on the flop, then you know to get away from your 9s. my point to her was, it's a clear all-in, PERIOD, unless both large stacks had the same amount of chips and they both went all-in preflop before i had a chance to act. in that spot, it's a clear laydown because i'm guaranteed to get 2nd place.

tolbiny

06-13-2004, 12:12 PM

I dont think any of us can help you here. Sounds like she is simply refusing to listen to a large group of players who spend a lot of time studying the game- my only advice, either dont talk poker with her or try to get greg rainer to post the simple line "i would go all in with 99 in this situation". If the WSOP champion cant convince her then there is no use trying /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Ohh, one more thing- her argument that "you dont have anything to lose" is false. You are paying 300 chips for every three hands you see, throwing away 99 is like trowing away 100 chips. Also, throwing away a winning hand is throwing away EV. YOu lose 2 ways.
I think all of us are on your side, and i would probably listen to EASTBAY when he says "you play it your way honey, an i will play it mine"

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 12:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think any of us can help you here. Sounds like she is simply refusing to listen to a large group of players who spend a lot of time studying the game- my only advice, either dont talk poker with her or try to get greg rainer to post the simple line "i would go all in with 99 in this situation". If the WSOP champion cant convince her then there is no use trying /images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Ohh, one more thing- her argument that "you dont have anything to lose" is false. You are paying 300 chips for every three hands you see, throwing away 99 is like trowing away 100 chips. Also, throwing away a winning hand is throwing away EV. YOu lose 2 ways.
I think all of us are on your side, and i would probably listen to EASTBAY when he says "you play it your way honey, an i will play it mine"

[/ QUOTE ]

part of her argument centers around the fact that i was down to my last 225 in chips and won the hand. from there i was able to come back and make it into the money. i did'nt need to risk all my chips in that spot on a pair of nines.

of course, i disagree.

another part of her argument is, "You can't predict the future" because you never know what kind of hand you may get next.

my response is, "that next hand or the hand after that could also be a lot worse. in that spot, you can't sit and wait around for what COULD COME".

Grivan

06-13-2004, 03:23 PM

Tell her you may not be able to predict the future, but by knowing the probability of things happeneing you can come close. This is the reason why insurance companies make a lot of money. They know what the chances are of something happeneing in the future, and they can charge you just enough money to cover for that.

Now that chances of getting a better hand in the next 7 hands is a lot smaller then the chances of getting a hand better then 99. This is being generous because really you have about 3 hands before it doesn't even matter if you get a good hand, because you won't have enough chips to make use of it.
Her line of thinking is very common in the world. There is a reason why people still play slot machines, and it is not because it is entertaining to push the button and watch the screen over and over. People win at slot machines occasionally and when they do they think it is the greatest activity in the world, and they keep playing because they won one time so it most be a winning proposition.

If you fold this hand, this is probably what would happen in the best case scenario. Say, 5 hands later you get really lucky and draw AA, so you go all in you have 500 chips at this point. You double up now your at 1000 right back where you started. Now, since you are only playing AA and KK and maybe QQ you dont get another hand for 15 hands. By that time you have been the BB and all-in 2 times. We will assume you won both of thoose. Now you have 300 chips and have AA again. You go all in and get called because you don't have enough to even match the BB anymore. Now you have about a 20% chance of losing with your AA here, but even if you do win it doesn't matter you will still get 3rd place.

You options with the 99 hand are to play and have a chance of getting something better then 3rd, or you can fold and get 3rd. The choice is yours. I know what I would choose though.

carpola

06-13-2004, 03:31 PM

You need a new girlfriend....preferably one that either doesn't play poker or knows quite a bit more than the current one.

dm34

06-13-2004, 03:46 PM

Because she is one stupid bitch.

jedi

06-13-2004, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]

part of her argument centers around the fact that i was down to my last 225 in chips and won the hand. from there i was able to come back and make it into the money. i did'nt need to risk all my chips in that spot on a pair of nines.

of course, i disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask her this: What exactly are you risking here in your spot? You're already in the money and you're the short stack. If you play conservatively, chances are that you won't get a much better hand than 99 or you won't get a better hand than 99 until your stack is too short to do any harm. If you play this way, you will most likely wind up in 3rd place. If you play "recklessly" here, pushing in with 99, and lose, you're in 3rd place. What exactly is the risk?

Abagadro

06-13-2004, 05:47 PM

BEST. POST. EVER.

ZeeJustin

06-13-2004, 06:19 PM

Easy all-in. I have no clue what all this discussion could possibly be about, since: A) I amfar too lazy to read it and B) This is a very very easy decision.

FWIW, folding is worse than limping, although both are fairly attrocious.

eastbay

06-13-2004, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Easy all-in. I have no clue what all this discussion could possibly be about

[/ QUOTE ]

Women. Read no more.

eastbay

Eder

06-13-2004, 07:29 PM

Well poker is funny game...last night I in final 100 in mtt...after 2 limpers i hold 99 in BB...of course I push...easy $$...1st limper calls with AA...2nd limper calls with JJ...oh well I still will push in that spot...and I tell girlfriend to bend over and do her job...

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 09:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

part of her argument centers around the fact that i was down to my last 225 in chips and won the hand. from there i was able to come back and make it into the money. i did'nt need to risk all my chips in that spot on a pair of nines.

of course, i disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask her this: What exactly are you risking here in your spot? You're already in the money and you're the short stack. If you play conservatively, chances are that you won't get a much better hand than 99 or you won't get a better hand than 99 until your stack is too short to do any harm. If you play this way, you will most likely wind up in 3rd place. If you play "recklessly" here, pushing in with 99, and lose, you're in 3rd place. What exactly is the risk?

[/ QUOTE ]

"What exactly is the risk? " She says " That's exactly what I'm speaking of. The fact that there was no risk involved in that play. I understand and agree to some point of what everyone was saying. I never said it was a stupid play I only wanted opinions on why you would. Everyone is giving all these different scenarios on the subject. So far, all I've heard are the words: possibilities, maybes, perhaps, mights, probablies. How many of you have actually have won this round of play than lost. It's not about playing conservatively or limping in. If, as most of you have said, that there is nothing to lose then why waste 900 chips on one hand. You can't force a fold with people with more that quadruple your chips. Playing poker is about the people at the table as well as the card draw. The possibilities of given cards is endless. I play poker for entertainment purposes only.

Sound like most of you guys are just obsessed and you rely on a book to show you the way. Some things are learned by experience and play, winning and losing. How will you ever know your max potential if you always play the same way all the damn time. I've won alot of poker chips since I started playing less than a year ago and most people who play with me at my table have no idea what I'm doing so they are confused on how to play against me and the usually lose. I respect everyone's opinion. Some more than others. Some of you sound like you need a woman to hold or that you need to go back to your mama's womb and start all over again."

Burno

06-13-2004, 09:15 PM

What is your girlfriend's ROI and ITM? What stakes does she play? Does she multitable?

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

BlackAces

06-13-2004, 09:24 PM

My last thought on this subject before I go elsewhere...

If you don't like dealing in "possibilities, maybes, perhaps, mights, probablies," you need to find another hobby, because you'll NEVER be successful at poker beyond the lowest levels. You can argue this until you're blue in the face, but it's the gospel truth.

Desdia72

06-13-2004, 09:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is your girlfriend's ROI and ITM? What stakes does she play? Does she multitable?

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Her reply : "Like I've said before. It was just a question. Damn! I play mainly for entertainment only I have over one million poker chips. I very rarely play money tables anymore. I know you guys have no respect for a woman's position except for the one on her back but all the same it's just for learning only and lots of laughs.

Most of you are simply unwilling to rely on anything except for what someone else tells you even the person who won WSOP championship games had lots and lots of luck and some skill. Bluffing is the only true skill of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif. (my opinion only)

Abagadro

06-13-2004, 11:44 PM

This has got to be a troll. No one is this dense.

Jsb

06-14-2004, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This has got to be a troll. No one is this dense.

[/ QUOTE ]
i was starting to think that too.

desdia: this is clearly not going anywhere. it is also just as clear that she (assuming this is in fact not a troll) is incorrect, for many reasons, most of which have been outlined here multiple times, and none of which seem to convince her. oh well. people like her are why people like us make money at this.

jedi

06-14-2004, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ask her this: What exactly are you risking here in your spot? You're already in the money and you're the short stack. If you play conservatively, chances are that you won't get a much better hand than 99 or you won't get a better hand than 99 until your stack is too short to do any harm. If you play this way, you will most likely wind up in 3rd place. If you play "recklessly" here, pushing in with 99, and lose, you're in 3rd place. What exactly is the risk?

[/ QUOTE ]

"What exactly is the risk? " She says " That's exactly what I'm speaking of. The fact that there was no risk involved in that play. I understand and agree to some point of what everyone was saying. I never said it was a stupid play I only wanted opinions on why you would. Everyone is giving all these different scenarios on the subject. So far, all I've heard are the words: possibilities, maybes, perhaps, mights, probablies. How many of you have actually have won this round of play than lost. It's not about playing conservatively or limping in. If, as most of you have said, that there is nothing to lose then why waste 900 chips on one hand. You can't force a fold with people with more that quadruple your chips. Playing poker is about the people at the table as well as the card draw. The possibilities of given cards is endless. I play poker for entertainment purposes only.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? It seems like she compeltely has it backwards here. There was no risk involved, yet she chooses the path of least reward. You busted out 3rd. If you folded, you would have busted out 3rd anyways. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing this hand which is LIKELY TO BE THE BEST HAND!

Her logic is completely backwards here. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing, so that's why we push in here in this case with the likely best hand and being a short stack.

jedi

06-14-2004, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]

*correction: she says i should have folded because a pair of 9s at this point in the SNG IS NOT A GOOD HAND. i was not in the blind and did not need to get involved and could have held back to wait for better cards and placed better than 3rd by doing so.*

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way, let's take this one step at a time:

1) a pair of 9s at this point in the SNG IS NOT A GOOD HAND.

WRONG! A pair of 9s is a GREAT hand at this point. You're three handed. If she thinks this isn't the best hand right now, she's got a serious case of monsters under the bed.

2) I was not in the blind and did not need to get involved and could have held back to wait for better cards and placed better than 3rd by doing so.

No, she couldn't. What "better cards" is she looking for here? In order to get better than 3rd, you're going to have to take some chances. If you just sit back and wait, you'll get blinded and anted to death, and when you do pick up your monster, how much do you think you'll double up to? You MIGHT get back to where you are now. Plus, don't forget the possibility that the other players will fold to your all-in bet.

This is really a no brainer. I haven't yet heard a good argument why you shouldn't have pushed all-in here.

mackthefork

06-14-2004, 07:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you going to do, wait for one of the 6 better hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say 5, 3 handed TT JJ QQ KK AA no others are better imo.

Regards ML

Grivan

06-14-2004, 12:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Her reply : "Like I've said before. It was just a question. Damn! I play mainly for entertainment only I have over one million poker chips. I very rarely play money tables anymore. I know you guys have no respect for a woman's position except for the one on her back but all the same it's just for learning only and lots of laughs.

Most of you are simply unwilling to rely on anything except for what someone else tells you even the person who won WSOP championship games had lots and lots of luck and some skill. Bluffing is the only true skill of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif. (my opinion only)

[/ QUOTE ]

AHHHHHA! Now I get it... She plays for play money. Not only that, she thinks that it matters that she wins at play money tables.

jedi

06-14-2004, 12:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Her reply : "Like I've said before. It was just a question. Damn!

[/ QUOTE ]

What was the question she asked? I only see her berating her boyfriend for pushing all-in with 99

CountDuckula

06-14-2004, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is your girlfriend's ROI and ITM? What stakes does she play? Does she multitable?

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Her reply : "Like I've said before. It was just a question. Damn! I play mainly for entertainment only I have over one million poker chips. I very rarely play money tables anymore. I know you guys have no respect for a woman's position except for the one on her back but all the same it's just for learning only and lots of laughs.

Most of you are simply unwilling to rely on anything except for what someone else tells you even the person who won WSOP championship games had lots and lots of luck and some skill. Bluffing is the only true skill of poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif. (my opinion only)

[/ QUOTE ]

1,000,000 play chips doesn't mean anything. Most of the people who play at play money tables are not all that competent, and it hasn't anything to do with gender; a lot of people are playing for entertainment, and will play any two cards just to see what happens. Also, you're not really risking anything; if you lose all of your play chips, you can always go back and get more and try again. This means that you can take some wild chances, and if they pay off, you score big; if they don't, oh well, time to visit the cashier and ask for more play chips! It's a little harder to do that when real money is involved, short of being Bill Gates.

As for bluffing being the only true skill in poker, that's just absurd. Mathematics is a skill, and one that pays big dividends. Yes, luck plays a big short-term role. But over the long run, the better you are at playing the odds, the better your results will be. Everything that can happen, will happen. A 72o will occasionally flop deuces and 7s to blow away AA. Over the long haul, though, the AA will be much more profitable than the 72. This is why people here are saying, "You can't go by the results of one hand."

In this particular instance, the 99 lost to an AT. Most of the time, that won't happen, because the AT has to get lucky to pick up a hand that beats an unimproved 99. 99 is one of the top 6 or 7 pre-flop hands in a short-handed game; waiting for a better one when you're the short stack will mean blinding out unless you get extremely lucky (getting 99 was already extremely lucky). Pushing all-in here was a good move, even if it didn't happen to work this time. The odds that either of the remaining two players has a better hand are very slim. In this case, the AT caught an A, which was one of only 6 possible cards that could single-handedly beat the 99 (there could have been straight and flush combinations that would do it, but the odds of that happening were even more remote than catching an A or a T). If neither hand improved, the 99 would win, and there were many more ways for that to happen than for the AT to catch cards to improve.

I have an idea to demonstrate this. Sit down with a deck of cards, and set aside a pair of 9s. Then shuffle the remaining cards, and deal out two hands and a full board (this emulates the 99 going all-in, and both of the other hands calling). You could even refine it by checking the two hands before dealing the board, and folding them if they are really poor starting hands; this would probably emulate the real-life situation better. Make a note of which hand wins, after all cards are dealt. Repeat this process for a large number of hands (I'd say at least 100, preferably more). You should see a pattern emerge.

Or, you could look at this site (http://gocee.com/poker/HE_Value.htm) for a chart which shows this being done for 1,000,000 simulated hands; 99 wins 72.1% of the time against one opponent who stays until the river (which is what happens in an all-in situation) with a random hand, and 53.5% of the time against two opponents. And most of the time, smart players will fold the majority of their hands to an all-in, rather than calling it and trusting that their random hand will beat whatever it was you thought was worth pushing all-in for; this increases your odds, because the number of hands that the tall stacks will play at you with is going to be a lot smaller than the number they'll fold (again, assuming relatively competent play on their parts).

Now, I'd also like to address the idea of sitting back and waiting for a monster while you're in the short stack (let alone the idea that 99 isn't a monster in this situation - it is!). If you do that, I guarantee you'll lose. As has been noted before, two tall stacks are not going to "duke it out" in this situation, unless they really don't know what they're doing. They're going to pick on the short stack and try to steal the blinds. If either of them shows enough strength, the other will back off and wait to see what happens. Unless the short stack makes a stand and gets lucky, he/she will be gone in short order. When you're in the short stack, and the blinds are a significant percentage of your stack, you have to take some chances to have any hope of finishing any higher than you are right now. If you don't, it's like standing on the deck of a sinking ship and hoping someone will come along out of nowhere and rescue you, instead of putting on a life jacket and jumping in the water for fear the sharks might get you. Yes, they might. But if you don't, you'll drown anyway, so you don't have anything to lose.

I'd recommend Sklansky's "The Theory of Poker" for a better understanding of what skills are involved besides bluffing. There are more than you think.

-Mike

P.S. -- Desdia, I do understand that you probably agree with most of what I said; for the most part, this is really addressed to your GF.

fnurt

06-14-2004, 01:05 PM

This is a completely unwinnable argument as you well know. There are two main reasons.

The first is that it's just a game of "what might have been," so no one can prove anything. With 1/10 of the chips in play, you were likely to lose close to 90% of the time no matter what you did, so it's a great opportunity for someone to be a back-seat driver risk-free. It's absolutely true that you might have folded and gone on to win, just like you could have won by playing it like you did. But the 90% of the time you fold and go on to lose, someone could have said, "that was a bad fold, you don't know anything about this game, you should have gone all-in there."

The second reason this argument is unwinnable is that you're arguing with a female. You should know better. And a thousand curses on you for dragging us into this argument, because none of us can win it, either.

BradleyT

06-14-2004, 01:54 PM

AKs is pretty close. But the principle is the same - he had a monster and made the right move.

His non-poker playing GF is being results oriented.

Jason Strasser

06-14-2004, 03:05 PM

This is one of those threads that makes me wonder what I could've been doing while reading the thread.

You GF is clueless, and I'm not sure why everyone has to be so passionate about it. She is a losing poker player. What is the conversion from play chips to real money?

Thats what I thought.

I wish I was in the gym.

Sarge85

06-14-2004, 03:26 PM

So you went all in with a better hand than your opponent - and she's upset?

Just checking....

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 06:49 PM

HER REPLY IS "AFTER ALL OF YOUR TALKING. THE END RESULT (WHICH I STATED BEFORE HE WENT ALL IN) IS THAT HE LOST LIKE I KNEW HE WOULD. THE ONLY REASON TO FOLD WAS BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY IN 3RD PLACE POSITION. OTHER OPPONENTS HAD OVER $4500 PER PLAYER. VERY SURE HE WOULD NOT PLACE ANY HIGHER SO WHY GIVE AWAY CHIPS. IT WAS NOT A MATTER OF POKER STRATEGY. BELIEVE ME I KNOW HOW TO PLAY I JUST CHOOSE TO PLAY WITH POKER CHIPS AND A MILLION IS NOT AS EASY TO COME BY AS YOU MAY THINK. TO START OVER YOU WOULD HAVE TO BEGIN AT THE BOTTOM WITH NO MORE THAN 1000 POKER CHIPS. JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE COME ACROSS PEOPLE PLAYING THAT WAY WITH POKER CHIPS HAS NO REFLECTION ON ME. MY BOYFRIED ESCALATED EVERYTHING BY SAYING I BERATED HIM OVER HIS CHOICE TO PLAY. I WAS ONLY INQUIRING ABOUT IT BUT THANKS FOR THE INFO ANYWAY...... /images/graemlins/wink.gif"

CORed

06-14-2004, 07:08 PM

CORed

06-14-2004, 07:22 PM

You didn't say what site this is on or what the fee is for the SNG, but on all the sites I know, both $5 and $10 SNG's have a $1 fee. This means that your biggest mistake is playing the $5 + $1 instead of the $10 + $1.

PrayingMantis

06-14-2004, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
HER REPLY IS "AFTER ALL OF YOUR TALKING. THE END RESULT (WHICH I STATED BEFORE HE WENT ALL IN) IS THAT HE LOST LIKE I KNEW HE WOULD. THE ONLY REASON TO FOLD WAS BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY IN 3RD PLACE POSITION. OTHER OPPONENTS HAD OVER $4500 PER PLAYER. VERY SURE HE WOULD NOT PLACE ANY HIGHER SO WHY GIVE AWAY CHIPS. IT WAS NOT A MATTER OF POKER STRATEGY. BELIEVE ME I KNOW HOW TO PLAY I JUST CHOOSE TO PLAY WITH POKER CHIPS AND A MILLION IS NOT AS EASY TO COME BY AS YOU MAY THINK. TO START OVER YOU WOULD HAVE TO BEGIN AT THE BOTTOM WITH NO MORE THAN 1000 POKER CHIPS. JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE COME ACROSS PEOPLE PLAYING THAT WAY WITH POKER CHIPS HAS NO REFLECTION ON ME. MY BOYFRIED ESCALATED EVERYTHING BY SAYING I BERATED HIM OVER HIS CHOICE TO PLAY. I WAS ONLY INQUIRING ABOUT IT BUT THANKS FOR THE INFO ANYWAY...... "

[/ QUOTE ]

This is getting weird. Desdia, are you sure you got a girlfriend? And not some personality issue instead?

CORed

06-14-2004, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
VERY SURE HE WOULD NOT PLACE ANY HIGHER SO WHY GIVE AWAY CHIPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the most nonsensical thing I've heard from your girlfriend yet.

Dump her. She's an idiot. I don't care how pretty or good in bed she is. What ever you do DON'T MARRY HER OR IMPREGNATE HER. She should not reproduce under any circumstances, for the good of humanity. Marying her (and inevetibly divorcing her) will probably result in financial ruin for her

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 07:36 PM

Her reply is: In case your confused, the post is "WHAT WOULD YOU DO?" not what I would do. Calling someone clueless about a pointless play is single minded.

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 07:43 PM

Her reply : "It's obvious you have issues. There's no reason to call someone an idiot about one play.It's not like he won or anything. In truth It's very sad indeed for some men to go to such lengths to make themselves big and tall." Once again, I simply wanted to know. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

CORed

06-14-2004, 07:44 PM

I'm 100% serious. I would dump her. She is extremely stupid. Your hormones are probably blinding you to this fact now, but it will become apparent later.

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 07:49 PM

Her reply "how can you say someone is extremely stupid about one questionable play? He still lost!!! Everyone has to have a beginning. And it sound's like you have some experience with women after all. Probably why you have to play poker in the first place

CORed

06-14-2004, 07:57 PM

Yes, I have some experience with women, and i've found that, no matter how much physical attraction their is, a stupid woman, in the long run, will cause nothing but heartache. Contrary to what some man might say, there are a lot of intelligent women out their. They can be valuable life partners. The stupid ones will be nothing but a burden and cause you a lot of heartache. Your girlfriend's reasoning on this play is so flawed, that I think it shows a real lack of understanding of not only poker, but basic money management. This is a recipe for disaster.

Girazze

06-14-2004, 08:39 PM

Just what I was thinking. I think his GF is a hand puppet and he's getting all this info for himself. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 08:58 PM

she feels that, "there is no rule saying that you have to go all-in with a pair of nines in that spot. sure, it's a good idea, but it's not your only option. folding is'nt the wrong play; it's a choice play. you don't have to go all-in with those 9s because of a certain rule."

CountDuckula

06-14-2004, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
HER REPLY IS "AFTER ALL OF YOUR TALKING. THE END RESULT (WHICH I STATED BEFORE HE WENT ALL IN) IS THAT HE LOST LIKE I KNEW HE WOULD.

[/ QUOTE ]

99 in that situation had a better chance of winning than not. You guessed right, but it was a guess, not a prediction.

[ QUOTE ]
THE ONLY REASON TO FOLD WAS BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY IN 3RD PLACE POSITION. OTHER OPPONENTS HAD OVER $4500 PER PLAYER. VERY SURE HE WOULD NOT PLACE ANY HIGHER SO WHY GIVE AWAY CHIPS. IT WAS NOT A MATTER OF POKER STRATEGY.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he wouldn't place any higher, what difference did it make whether he was eliminated then or later? At least this way, he got it over with.

[ QUOTE ]
BELIEVE ME I KNOW HOW TO PLAY I JUST CHOOSE TO PLAY WITH POKER CHIPS AND A MILLION IS NOT AS EASY TO COME BY AS YOU MAY THINK. TO START OVER YOU WOULD HAVE TO BEGIN AT THE BOTTOM WITH NO MORE THAN 1000 POKER CHIPS. JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE COME ACROSS PEOPLE PLAYING THAT WAY WITH POKER CHIPS HAS NO REFLECTION ON ME. MY BOYFRIED ESCALATED EVERYTHING BY SAYING I BERATED HIM OVER HIS CHOICE TO PLAY. I WAS ONLY INQUIRING ABOUT IT BUT THANKS FOR THE INFO ANYWAY...... /images/graemlins/wink.gif"

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, whatever.

-Mike

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just what I was thinking. I think his GF is a hand puppet and he's getting all this info for himself. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

(Desdia72) no, she actually does exist. i don't need
the info about going all-in with a pair of nines in that spot. i play for money and i study the game so this info is not for me.

Desdia72

06-14-2004, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I have some experience with women, and i've found that, no matter how much physical attraction their is, a stupid woman, in the long run, will cause nothing but heartache. Contrary to what some man might say, there are a lot of intelligent women out their. They can be valuable life partners. The stupid ones will be nothing but a burden and cause you a lot of heartache. Your girlfriend's reasoning on this play is so flawed, that I think it shows a real lack of understanding of not only poker, but basic money management. This is a recipe for disaster.

[/ QUOTE ]

(Desdia72) this has nothing to do with poker. this simply has to do her opinion on a particular hand, why is basic money management coming into play? we're not talking about balancing a checkbook or deciding on the grocery budget. it's all about ONE poker hand that me and her had a difference of opinion on--- THAT'S IT. any talk outside of poker is irrelevant and unnecessary. why would you call someone STUPID because of their views on ONE hand of poker? that's lame. if you feel her THINKING on the issue is flawed, so be it, but there's no need to be launching personal attacks on something so miniscule and unimportant in the overrall picture.