help me end a major trash streak - long [Archive]

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DrewOnTilt

06-11-2004, 04:35 PM

I need some help. There are obviously holes in my SNG play, and I would like help in identifying and fixing them. I have been using AleoMagus' tourney advice as a guide. My questions are a bit lengthy but I would appreciate any help.

Over my last 34 $10/$1 SNGs:

8 3rds
5 2nds
0 1sts

I know this is short-term, and that placing in 13 out of 34 tourneys is not bad, but the 0 1sts places is killing me.

Some questions/comments about the $10/$1 games and my own play:

1) I think that I fold too much to preflop raises in the early rounds, especially with pairs 88-TT. I have noticed that many of these low-limit players will open raise 2 or 3 BB with hands such as AJo, ATo, KQo, KJo, and even some mid-range pairs.

If I'm in mid to late position early in the tourney with 88-TT and someone raises to 2BB or 3BB ahead of me, what is generally a good move? Fold? Call and see what hits on the flop? With 99-TT, should I occasionally reraise and then bet the pot if rags hit and he checks to me?

2) I also think that I fold flush draws too often. Let's say I flop a draw to the nut flush in late position, and someone ahead of me bets the pot. Under what conditions should I continue? Under what conditions should I reraise him?

3) I see that many 10/1 players will make a post oak bluff bet at a pot. I also see that many players will make a small enticement bet when they have a hand such as a good pair or a set. How should I approach the situation when I have a decent but not great hand and someone makes such a bet?

4) I understand that the general recommendation is that all bets on the flop and beyond should be the size of the pot or all-in, and that slowplaying big pairs or flopped monsters is generally a bad idea.

I agree in general, but I have noticed that if I raise preflop with a big pair, get 1 to 2 callers, and the flop is unspectacular, a pot-sized bet generally causes everyone to fold. In this case - AA, KK, or QQ versus a trash flop - would it be advisable to sometimes check the flop and give someone a chance to make a lower pair?

5) Are there any scenarios in which I should move all-in on a flush or open-ended straight draw?

Thanks guys. I just got the booby prize in another tourney while writig this post /images/graemlins/frown.gif so any and all help is appreciated.

slogger

06-11-2004, 05:28 PM

Hey Drew, hang in there man! Could easily just be running bad, but I think you're hurting yourself by playing too much by the book (even when it's a pretty good book, or AM's 10+1 system, as the case may be, you cannot abandon parts of your game that will allow you to stray from the "book play" when it would be beneficial to do so).

1) I think you're right. You're folding too much. Apparently way too much. Decent pocket pairs (88 or better) should be played, unless you have a great read on the raiser. I'm not saying you should call off half your stack before the flop, but in the early stages, a 3-4xBB raise should not terrify you as long as you have decent position and play well post-flop. More important than what type of pair you have, pay attention to how your opponents are playing, both individually and as a group. How are they reacting to each other's plays? This info, combined with position, raise size and stack size will more often than not guide you to the correct decision.

2) There are a lot of variables here that will cause the correct play to change. Do you have overcards? Was the pot raised pre-flop? Is it heads up or multi-way? Any reads on the pot bettor? I know this all may seem a bit amorphous, but it is necessarily so - the question does not have standard answers.

3) I've noticed this myself. I think it's becoming more and more common and I honestly can't believe that som many people play this badly. Again, there's not set answer, but I think you can generally be pretty suspicious of the minimum bets. These can be used to trap, but more often than not, they seem to mean exaclty what you would think they mean. Make sure to differentiate between an mini-bet into 4 opponents on the flop and a heads-up 1/3 pot bet on the river. They are obviously very different animals. Also, your response to such bets depends on the strength of your own hand (do you have a calling hand, or a marginal raising hand?)

4. Yes, bets should be "around" pot-size, but don't be a robot. And yes, slowplaying big pairs is disasterous. But a carefully calculated slowplay of a flopped monster will gain you far more chips than it will lose. You said, "I have noticed that if I raise preflop with a big pair, get 1 to 2 callers, and the flop is unspectacular, a pot-sized bet generally causes everyone to fold." And you're complaining? If your raise was an appropriate amount (3-4xBB, give or take), you got two callers, and then they surrendered on the flop, this is a great result (you added 6-8 BB to your stack w/ very little risked). Additionally, you should note how these opponents responded to your aggression and take advantage of them later (both pre-flop and beyond).

As a very general statement, I think the mistake you're making (as mentioned above - overly "book" dependent and likely too tight early) is creating another bad symptom -feeling like you need to double up every time you do get a good starting hand. This is tournament play, so slow and steady gains in chips is what you're looking for; not 20-minute rock-tight spans in between attempts to double up with one good hand. If you do happen to get a huge burst of chips from a monster hand, great, but that's not what usually wins these things.

Good luck busting out of your slump!

DrewOnTilt

06-12-2004, 12:41 AM

Slogger, thanks for your feedback. It was very helpful. Anyone else who wants to comment, please pipe in.

I read Slogger's comments and really thought about all of them. I played in 3 tourneys tonight and took first in 2 of them!!!

I am going to post some hands that I played differently / more aggressively than I would have done before today. Please comment.

Hand #1:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t775)
MP3 (t815)
CO (t1145)
Button (t755)
SB (t705)
BB (t740)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t665)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t15, UTG+1 raises to t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 4 folds, SB calls t20, BB calls t15, Hero calls t15.

Flop: (t150) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t15, MP1 folds, SB calls t15, BB folds, Hero raises to t100, UTG+1 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: t280
Main Pot: t195 (t195), won by Hero.
Pot 2: t85 (t85), returned to Hero.

No showdown. Hero wins t280.

This was early in the game, but I had noticed that this guy was betting pretty passively on the first few hands. I fired in the checkraise to gauge his hand. Apparently he raised preflop with something less than a queen.

Hand #2:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO (t1605)
Button (t770)
SB (t875)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t535)
MP1 (t1110)
MP2 (t785)
MP3 (t720)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, MP1 raises to t30, MP2 calls t30, 3 folds, SB calls t20, Hero calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15.

Flop: (t150) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t150, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t150, SB folds.

Turn: (t450) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t100, MP2 calls t100.

River: (t650) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: t650
Main Pot: t650 (t650), between Hero and MP2. > Pot won by Hero (t650).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ts Js (two pair, jacks and threes).
MP2 shows 5c Jc (two pair, jacks and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins t650. 

Now that I look back over the hand history, I think I was a bit aggressive on the flop with my mediocre kicker. Still, the raiser folded to a jack high flop. Before, I would have folded this hand preflop to the raise, but I think that I've been giving the average $10/$1 player a bit too much credit.

Hand #3:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (2 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button (t5250)
Hero (t2750)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button calls t150, Hero raises to t900, Button calls t600.

Flop: (t1800) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t1850 (All-In), Button folds.

Final Pot: t3650
Main Pot: t1800 (t1800), won by Hero.
Pot 2: t1850 (t1850), returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins t3650. 

This was a key turning point in one of my wins. The guy folded a Jack/weak kicker. A bit aggressive?

esbesb

06-12-2004, 01:33 AM

Drew:

I don't know if this helps, and I don't mean to be too simplistic in my response, but for what it's worth . . .

I recently went through a horrible stretch. It was very frustrating. And the more frustrating it got, the worse I played, until . . .

I made a vow to concentrate more. Sounds silly, I know. But I was playing a WAY too formulaic game, failing to appreciate the nuances, not independently evaluating each and every hand.

When I made a vow to stop playing a formulaic game and start forcing myself to carefully concentrate on each hand, my results started improving again.

I don't know if this helps. Good luck.

Grivan

06-12-2004, 04:43 PM

As to #5. You should be aggresive most of the time you have an open ended straight or good flush draw. With 8 out on the flop if you get all in you will be improving about 34% of the time. If you have a flush its even better. Now, if you have a flush draw with two over cards you have 15 outs maybe, and you are a favorite to win the pot if you get all in on the flop. This fact combined with the EV that having opponents fold because of your aggression, makes it correct to bet, re-raise, or even go all in with certain draws. The semi-bluff is a very valuable tool.