2/4 table image

[just_checking]

Was wondering how many of you try to create table images at 2/4. As I was building my BR at .50/1 and 1/2, it didn't matter what I did as it seemed that players were only concerned with cards and didn't notice my betting patterns at all.

At 2/4, though, it seems as if people understand basic concepts of table image, but at a very primitive level that gets them into more trouble.

For example, last night at Party 2/4, I raised on the button with 69s. This was the first hand I entered, and I wanted to test the waters a bit. Anyways, I had 5 callers and the flop came 6 9 10, suits not important. BB bet, all call, I raise, get 2 callers. I was bet into on both the turn and river (which were blanks and which I reraised and was called).
Anyways, 3 to showdown and the pot (I think) was around $80.

I win against AA and JJ. Lucky me. AA proceeded to bitch and moan about what a terrible PF raise that was, and I should have folded, and how I sucked blah blah blah.

So now I was the loose fish at the table. But wait, I lost my internet connection and was booted off the table.

15 minutes later, I am at another 2/4 table and pulled the same thing with 69o and flopped nut straight /images/graemlins/blush.gif. I was check called down by KK and AK and won another nice pot. More comments like "I can't believe you raised with that" and "I can;t wait to take all of your $$$" followed.

The guy from my first 69 hand got a seat at the new table and proceeded to tell everyone about how crappy I was.

Well, I tightened up and killed them. It seemed no one cared about the KK, AA, KQs type of hands that I aggressively won with for the next hour. No one saw that I won almost everything I showed down with. Everyone remembered the 69 and gave me action.

Is this normal? Are people really that ignorant? In fact, I logged on this morning to a 2/4 table and the SAME moron who bitched about me followed me and I took his money again.

Now I admit that those 2 wins w/ 69 were lucky, but I would have released them if i hadn't hit the flop. I am a very aggressive player all around, but I'm not a complete idiot.

I have only played 2/4 for about a week, and was wondering when this will end. Are most 2/4 players really incapable of rethinking someone's table image?


Anyhoo, I just felt like posting because I feel good about myself right now, and since my wife doesn't care, I thought I would share it with complete strangers.

[Haupt_234]

I would save the "changing gears, raise with nothing" play for a table other than 2/4 limit. It is too hard to get anyone who hits the smallest amount of the flop to fold. These plays are tricky, but will prove to be a leak in the long run (and most likely the short run, for that matter).

Consider yourself lucky that you had a whiney advertiser following you around, supporting your tricky play unknowingly.

Haupt_234

[just_checking]

When you say leak, do you mean at 2/4 or at all levels?

Conditions were perfect for me last night, as I hit my "raise with nothing," got action, got excellent starters after, and had the peanut gallery. I guess toning it down while I am ahead might be a good idea.

[btspider]

AA should have raised preflop in hand 1 and you would have been out of the hand. Are you specifically raising 69 in these hands to create a table image? Its not worth it. You got lucky that you even got to show them down and incredibly lucky to win with them on the first try. You should be able to kill a table when you get AA, KK, AK anyway, so don't worry about the image.

At the low limits, the typical player only makes note of excessive tightness or aggressiveness. They do not note when a player is both, or when a player is loose, or when a player is passive.

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]
When you say leak, do you mean at 2/4 or at all levels?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if you are playing $.01/$.02 ot $1000/$2000, a play like raising 69o in LP isn't remotely close to being profitable.

Haupt_234

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
...a play like raising 69o in LP isn't remotely close to being profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they were s00ted. Gamb00l!

[just_checking]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter if you are playing $.01/$.02 ot $1000/$2000, a play like raising 69o in LP isn't remotely close to being profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on the level that i will lose $$ most times i raise with 69. But, I like the action it gets me later when I showdown these trash hands. I think for me, at least in my last several sessions (which I know doesn't count for much), the play would have been profitable even if I had showndown and lost those hands to a set or straight due to the future action.

I guess what I am asking is if the old loose to tight switcheroo makes any sense in 2/4. If not, what levels might it work for.

Thanks for the replies.

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what I am asking is if the old loose to tight switcheroo makes any sense in 2/4

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no simple answer. But, the more observant players there are at the table, the more effective the play will be on later hands. And since we are talking about 2/4, you will be lucky to find a single observant opponent.

Haupt_234

[zram21]

I think you will find at 2/4 those players would have called you down when you had AA, KK, AK etc even if you hadn't made the 69 plays earlier.

The people you are trying to fool with those early raises are few and far between at those levels and will pick up on the fact that you play solid overall. The other ones may call you a fish and complain about your play, but they probably won't play any different against you than they would have anyway.

You also said you would release if you didn't hit your hand. The flop is going to miss 69o and 69s most of the time. So your advertising raise does nothing but lose you money if you are just going to release it if you miss. Your better off just playing it all straight up.

[just_checking]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is going to miss 69o and 69s most of the time. So your advertising raise does nothing but lose you money if you are just going to release it if you miss

[/ QUOTE ]

To tell you the truth, I never thought of that. I played it twice and it hit twice. I didn't stop to think about how rare that was. Thanks for the thoughful reply. Hopefully I'll get up the courage to post some hand histories sometime soon and learn some more.

[StellarWind]

I don't favor advertising in the Land-of-Blind-People-Who-Change-Tables-Every-Twenty-Minutes. But if you insist:

1. The point already made about having to fold most of your outrages before you can show them is a very strong one.

2. Don't go crazy with offsuit cards. There is a reason the GrannyMae (Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif) is suited. You have a much better chance of hitting something and the advertising impact is almost as good.

3. Look for plays that aren't as bad as they look. Raising five opponents from the BB with 65s is much cheaper than making the same play UTG, but people won't take that into proper account.

4. This is a special case of the idea that the time to bluff raise is when you have already posted or have a legitimate call. That way you are only wasting 1 SB instead of 2.

[bernie]

If you're getting plenty of action on your good hands there is no reason to use an 'image' play for future action. What's the point?

Other than it can be fun.

Hell, i sit on a table folding for 2 hours straight, raise my rockets in EP and get 4 callers. Should i start playing crap for image?

b

btw... i dont think 'image' plays are as relevant online as they are in a cardroom where you play the same players over and over. Even then, use the action you get as the benchmark.

[pokerjo22]

Its just an expensive form of advertising, simply because so many times you're not going to showdown the hand, having folded it on the flop. Even when you do show it down, a lot of people won't notice.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the action it gets me later when I showdown these trash hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to save this quote and show it to you a few months from now if you keep posting here. We'll all have a good laugh.