View Full Version : Question about the movie 'Rounders'
jwvdcw
06-10-2004, 09:12 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before.....
At the end scene, after Mike beats Teddy KGB, Grandma is visibly upset. He takes a chair and flips it upsidedown in anger. Why is he so mad? The way I understood it, was that he was still getting his $15,000, its just that Teddy had just lost a bunch of money. But Grandma didn't lose any money did he? He was still to get his money, which he was getting a great percentage of('I got a really sweet deal. Theres not a lot of faith in you', he said to Worm earlier). Moreover, Grandma kinda liked Mike, so he wouldn't really be any more loyal to KGB than to Mike. So why was he so upset?
Sorry if I'm overanalyzing things, but I've seen it a ton of times, so I'm starting to notice all the little things.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if this has been asked before.....
At the end scene, after Mike beats Teddy KGB, Grandma is visibly upset. He takes a chair and flips it upsidedown in anger. Why is he so mad? The way I understood it, was that he was still getting his $15,000, its just that Teddy had just lost a bunch of money. But Grandma didn't lose any money did he? He was still to get his money, which he was getting a great percentage of('I got a really sweet deal. Theres not a lot of faith in you', he said to Worm earlier). Moreover, Grandma kinda liked Mike, so he wouldn't really be any more loyal to KGB than to Mike. So why was he so upset?
Sorry if I'm overanalyzing things, but I've seen it a ton of times, so I'm starting to notice all the little things.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see your point, but I think Grandma getting upset just ads to the good vs. evil them prevalent in movies...that's all.
astroglide
06-10-2004, 09:30 PM
if he had remained expressionless or actually appeared happy, he would not be a very good "employee"
He was looking forward to breaking mike's legs if he couldn't pay.
Kevin
06-10-2004, 09:55 PM
He knew that Teddy was very irritated and therefore not going to be especially "gentle" with him later that evening
Depraved
06-10-2004, 10:07 PM
They might have edited out a scene or two that provided some context for that blow-up. But if not, you're right - his final moments were fairly inconsistent with his character up to that point.
Punker
06-11-2004, 01:52 AM
As a Rounderite PhD, I suspect it is that, as Worm said, KGB had plenty of hired goons. This kind of connection to helping KGB get what he wanted (whatever it was he wanted with Mike) was Grandma's ticket to getting in good with KGB and the Russian Mafia (by doing so he becomes a "made man" or whatever). The goal was never to get the money; it was to get Mike.
Once this fails, and KGB is so angry, Grandma also knows his chance of getting in good and moving from being a pimp/two bit thug to a mafia tough guy are over as well.
But the real question is: What did Teddy KGB have???
~D
Dante
06-11-2004, 02:01 AM
what KGB and Gramma really wanted was to "own" Mike - they would make him play on their money, taking a huge cut of the winnings (plus the interest on the money he owed), causing him to create a huge profit for them.
It's all about the money - longer term, taking a cut of his money plus interest, makes WAAAAYYY more money than just getting $15k, and it makes a lot more than hurting/killing him and getting $0.
with organized crime, it's all about the money. If anyone else tells you different (unless you kill someone close to them), they're wrong.
Bill
Cptkernow
06-11-2004, 07:27 AM
with organized crime its not about the money.
Its about the Hats.
ArchAngel71857
06-11-2004, 10:32 AM
But the real question is: What did Teddy KGB have???
Damn, I thought I was going to get through a Rounders post without seeing this question.
-AA
...they were planning on killing him come morning the way I understood it.
Gramma was upset for two main reasons, IMO.
1) Since Mike won the money from KGB, he is no longer making a payment to Gramma and therefore Gramma does not collect his percentage. He is instead paying KGB directly.
2) Since Gramma views himself as their "lacky" in the past, he has some emotional and psychological interest in seeing Mike fail so he can kill him...vengence.
Since he gets neither of these things from Mike beating KGB at the end, nor does he get the dual satisfaction of KGB taking all his money and getting to kill him...he gets pissed and throws the chair.
astroglide
06-11-2004, 11:32 AM
people on RGP claimed to frame by frame it and saw a set of tens
Gamblor
06-11-2004, 11:49 AM
Somehow I think Gramma just likes kickin' ass, and when Mike wins, Mike pays up so KGB won't let Gramma open a can of whup-ass, Bobby Boucher styles.
mike l.
06-11-2004, 01:36 PM
a more crowd pleasing ending wouldve been mike wins kgb's money and then kgb smiles and eats an oreo and gramma grabs him and they drag him screaming and kicking into a back room and torture him and beat him, and then slit his throat. the pro with the glasses is sitting there at a table mucking his KQo utg and he can hear the screaming and cries for help but he just posts his blind and keeps playing.
mike l.
06-11-2004, 01:40 PM
"Since he gets neither of these things from Mike beating KGB at the end, nor does he get the dual satisfaction of KGB taking all his money and getting to kill him...he gets pissed and throws the chair."
there is a third option you need to consider and that is that at that very moment gramma stubbed his toe and reeling from the pain he does something rash and throws the chair.
LOL, perhaps he saw someone he recognized from the Village going into the mens room and was in a rush to get over there to say "Hi".
Very good possibility.
Deorum
06-11-2004, 04:54 PM
First of all, it is Grama, not Grandma. And he is upset
because he feels loyal to KGB. In the scene with Worm and
Grama in the strip club, you hear Grama tell Worm "I was
your lackey. But I learned a few things, Worm." However,
his loyalty to KGB carries with it the implication that his
character has not learned anything, only that he has become
loyal to somebody else. He insists that he has undergone
a revelation, but the viewer identifies that he has not
changed at all as a person, only as to whom he is loyal.
It is this quality in Grama that identifies him as an
antagonist.
As for slowing down and watching frame by frame, I have done
this myself, but I cannot identify the cards that KGB throws
away, and cannot confirm that he had a set of tens. I
can say that if he did have a set of tens, his move in on
the river was rather odd, as if Mike had actually been
on a draw, he of course is not going to call that bet.
The only way Mike would have played the way he did and
actually called the river bet is if he had been slowplaying
the straight (which he was, but KGB does not know that for
sure, and right now we are thinking of the hand from KGB's
perspective) or possibly another set, but he probably
would have been pushing a smaller set rather than check
calling with it. The calibar of player that KGB is, he
should have realized this, and would most likely not have
moved in on the river with a set of tens. But perhaps I am
now the one overanalyzing things.
Michael Davis
06-11-2004, 05:17 PM
This is an expert option, according to David Sklansky. However, if you choose this, recognize that few viewers will understand what you are doing.
-Michael
Sheesh, you know nothing!!
Grama is actually the head of the syndicate, while KGB is the figurehead leader. If any whack job gets issued, KGB will be the target instead of Grama, the real brains behind the outfit.
Grama is pissed at the end because it is acutually his money that KGB loses to Mike on the final hand. /images/graemlins/cool.gif
jwvdcw
06-11-2004, 11:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
But the real question is: What did Teddy KGB have???
~D
[/ QUOTE ]
AA makes the most sense to me.
jwvdcw
06-11-2004, 11:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
a more crowd pleasing ending wouldve been mike wins kgb's money and then kgb smiles and eats an oreo and gramma grabs him and they drag him screaming and kicking into a back room and torture him and beat him, and then slit his throat. the pro with the glasses is sitting there at a table mucking his KQo utg and he can hear the screaming and cries for help but he just posts his blind and keeps playing.
[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif
TruePoker CEO
06-12-2004, 12:21 AM
LOL
[ QUOTE ]
what KGB and Gramma really wanted was to "own" Mike - they would make him play on their money, taking a huge cut of the winnings (plus the interest on the money he owed), causing him to create a huge profit for them.
It's all about the money - longer term, taking a cut of his money plus interest, makes WAAAAYYY more money than just getting $15k, and it makes a lot more than hurting/killing him and getting $0.
with organized crime, it's all about the money. If anyone else tells you different (unless you kill someone close to them), they're wrong.
Bill
[/ QUOTE ]
This makes sense. The guy from the movie Casino Frank Rosenthal, made a lot of money for the mob through sports handicapping. They did not particularly like him, especially since he was Jewish. But, like any business, the higher ups protected their money maker.
BassMasterK
06-12-2004, 03:06 AM
Close but not quite....
Gramma stubs his toe and is in such pain he temporarily hallucinates that he is Phil Hellmuth, and throws the chair because he thinks he is the recipient of a bad beat.
And that, my young padiwan, is the meaning of the end of the movie.
Punker
06-12-2004, 04:10 AM
If that is what KGB wanted, why not just send a couple of thugs to his house to "educate" him in his new financial situation? I doubt KGB enters into some complex scheme to "own" the corner stores that he makes pay him protection money...its just do it or we kill you.
SmileyEH
06-12-2004, 07:27 PM
Looks to me like 2 black tens
Rooster71
06-13-2004, 07:45 AM
Doesn't it seem crazy that the cardroom (they call it the Chesterfield, I think) loans Worm $2,000 on Mike's tab to play on and then when he's ready to cash out, they don't require him to repay the $2,000 out of his winnings? Later on, the lady from the card room visits Mike to let him know that Worm is into his account for $7,000. Yes, I realize they know that Mike and Worm are friends, but this still seems ridiculous to me. After all, at that time Mike had not played cards in 9 months and Worm was in jail most of that time. The idea that any place of business floats credit so freely amazes me. Maybe that happens in some places, but it seems crazy to me.
baggins
06-13-2004, 04:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't it seem crazy that the cardroom (they call it the Chesterfield, I think) loans Worm $2,000 on Mike's tab to play on and then when he's ready to cash out, they don't require him to repay the $2,000 out of his winnings? Later on, the lady from the card room visits Mike to let him know that Worm is into his account for $7,000. Yes, I realize they know that Mike and Worm are friends, but this still seems ridiculous to me. After all, at that time Mike had not played cards in 9 months and Worm was in jail most of that time. The idea that any place of business floats credit so freely amazes me. Maybe that happens in some places, but it seems crazy to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
A) it's poker.
B) it's an underground poker club, not a real 'business' that pays taxes and sh!t.
C) it's a movie.
jayadd
06-13-2004, 06:08 PM
"mike" therapy at this point is in order......
Sloats
06-13-2004, 07:10 PM
Johnny Dangerously?
RollaJ
06-14-2004, 09:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if this has been asked before.....
At the end scene, after Mike beats Teddy KGB, Grandma is visibly upset. He takes a chair and flips it upsidedown in anger. Why is he so mad? The way I understood it, was that he was still getting his $15,000, its just that Teddy had just lost a bunch of money. But Grandma didn't lose any money did he? He was still to get his money, which he was getting a great percentage of('I got a really sweet deal. Theres not a lot of faith in you', he said to Worm earlier). Moreover, Grandma kinda liked Mike, so he wouldn't really be any more loyal to KGB than to Mike. So why was he so upset?
[/ QUOTE ]
Funny, that bothered me too (not enough to post abou it though /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). The way I see it Gramma should be jumping for joy because he gets his money. (As opposed to what was stated earlier in this thread the mob is all about money, not pride or sh1t like that.) Then if he really wanted he could walk outside, and kick Mike's ass anyway and take the money he left the club with.
I don't mean to be a jerk, but this is driving nuts!!!!
Grandma= Sweet little old lady who bakes cookies and gives birthday gifts.
Grama= Tough street thug in Rounder who wants to kill Worm and beat Mike McD senseless.
Good luck guys,
Fitz
baggins
06-15-2004, 10:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to be a jerk, but this is driving nuts!!!!
Grandma= Sweet little old lady who bakes cookies and gives birthday gifts.
Grama= Tough street thug in Rounder who wants to kill Worm and beat Mike McD senseless.
Good luck guys,
Fitz
[/ QUOTE ]
seriously, get over it.
didn't you catch the irony in the movie of having the tough street thug have a nickname like 'grandma'?
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