now i'm really cross

[stripsqueez]

theres a bloke in quantanamo bay who comes from where i live - his name is david hicks

he grew up in the northern suburbs of adelaide, a city of 800,000 or so - he got rounded up in the war in afghanistan - no-one is too sure what he did although there seems little doubt that he had some connection with bad guys in afghanistan

for the last 2 years or so the sycophantic australian government has done nothing - our foreign minister when pushed about why an australian citizen was being held in custody by a foreign government without any detailed allegation being made, or more to the point any charges being laid, stated that although the circumstances werent clear it was likely that he was involved in some "silly activities"

so finally george and his administration have announced what they are going to do - very few details have been provided but it seems that a brand new system of charges in front of a new judicial body has been invented

i have been cross for a while about quantanamo bay prisoners - no-one seems shocked at the blatant disregard for what i figured were fundamental rights that human beings have in a civilised world - i've heard george on the topic a few times - he usually dodges the question but when pushed i heard him say once that the prisoners in quantanamo bay were "killers"

that leads me to my latest and perhaps most profound sense of outrage - those devising the brand new system of "justice" for these prisoners had to come up with an appeal process from the body that hears the charges - the choice ? - the appeal goes to george - so i'm charged with being a very bad guy in afghanistan, some body specifically designed to hear charges against me convicts me and i get to appeal to the guy who's political credibility rests on my demise and whos on the record as describing me as a killer

take a step back citizens of the US - next time you scoff at the world bashing your country and/or government consider that you hold yourself out in repeated rhetoric as the land of the free yet this is how you behave ??

your a wanker george - normally i just wouldnt care but now its just a bit too close for me to be happy ignoring you

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[MMMMMM]

"he got rounded up in the war in afghanistan - no-one is too sure what he did although there seems little doubt that he had some connection with bad guys in afghanistan"

Uh-huh. The guy got lucky he wasn't killed along with some of his terrorist buddies, and you're cross about it. By the way, do you think bin-Laden deserves a full due process and a fair trial, or to have a 500-lb. bomb dropped on his head?

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, do you think bin-Laden deserves a full due process and a fair trial, or to have a 500-lb. bomb dropped on his head?

[/ QUOTE ]

a while ago, civilised countries decided that bias and prejudice often born of a lynch mob mentality was no way to deal with those accused of doing the wrong thing - to implement a system free of such things principles of human rights and fairness were enshrined in the system - am i going too fast ??

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[MMMMMM]

Sorry, but I think as much of al-Qaeda as possible should have been blown up in Afghanistan--which includes any of their up-to-no-good buddies who were hanging around their training camps.

That's the civilized way to deal with it--kill those guys who are trying to kill you before they succeed. There is absolutely no doubt that's what al-Qaeda has been trying to do. Guilt by association? Sure, in this extreme case. Anyone hanging out with al-Qaeda around their training camps in Afghanistan was a legitimate target after 9/11.

[auntieklava]

[ QUOTE ]
That's the civilized way to deal with it--kill those guys who are trying to kill you before they succeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

and all lived happily ever after...

[ACPlayer]

Just because you dont hear it in the right wing dominated media, there are plenty of American citizens who are upset and concerned about Gitmo. Unfortunately with the passage of time it seems like the bad guys (Bush Admin) win, time is unfortunately on their side.

Not all of us share MMMMMM's decidedly un-American and extremely fascist views.

[ACPlayer]

Just because you dont hear it in the right wing dominated media, there are plenty of American citizens who are upset and concerned about Gitmo. Unfortunately with the passage of time it seems like the bad guys (Bush Admin) win, time is unfortunately on their side.

Not all of us share MMMMMM un-American and extremely fascist views.

[Jimbo]

AcPlayer you are living in a vacuum. First of all the media is decidedly left wing and next very few Americans think Gitmo is a bad idea. Please prove otherwise.

Jimbo

[ACPlayer]

.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
AcPlayer you are living in a vacuum. First of all the media is decidedly left wing and next very few Americans think Gitmo is a bad idea. Please prove otherwise.

Jimbo

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, GE is so left wing. i saw the CEO at a protest the other day. Viacom is nothing but a pawn for the left. They didn't want to upset their left-wing sponsorers mcdonalds. And Walt Disney, well, when i think "communist", that damn mouse always comes to mind.

[MMMMMM]

What's un-American about trying to kill an enemy who is already trying to kill you?

[MMMMMM]

I too am concerned about Gitmo, but anyone who was captured hanging out with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan should be considered lucky to be alive. And it appears that is exactly what this Hicks guy was doing.

[MMMMMM]

The media companies may not necessarily be all left wing, but the media reporters, by and large, are liberal or left wing. There was a study done on this. (By the way, it's also true that by far most college professors are liberal or left-leaning, Democrat rather than Republican).

Who writes the stories, who does the reporting? We get the liberal or left-leaning slant nearly every time Blitzer, Rather, Koppel, Jennings or a host of others open their mouths.

[jokerswild]

The people responsible for 9-11 are named Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet, Wolfowitz, and Rice.

I think your post qualifies to suspect you of terrorism. They could place you in prison, deny you Habeus Corpus and access to an attorney, and then sodomize and beat you.

Quick, MMMMMM, you still have time to flee to a country with no extradition

[MMMMMM]

My comments apply only to those who were in Afghanistan hanging out with al-Qaeda--like Mr. Hicks.

Your absurd comments about the Bush administration being responsible for 9/11 show a lack of analytical ability.

[ACPlayer]

It is one thing to try and kill them in battle. It is another thing to put them in cages, deny them any rights, and treat them inhumanely. That is un-American and historically the people who have done these types of things are the Saddam, Hitler, and Lenin types. It is NOT American, it is not about individual and human rights.

[elwoodblues]

If you have the option of either capturing them or killing them (assuming that it is just as "safe" to capture as to kill) then it is morally wrong to kill.

[ACPlayer]

I would like to see this study. I suspect it is either 10 years old or funded by a right wing group.

Name 3 prominent left wing commentators (like Rush,Liddy etc) who dominate the airwaves? I cant think of one, unless the Gore/Dean types have gone on the air since I went overseas.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
the media reporters, by and large, are liberal or left wing. There was a study done on this

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt that is true at all. If you choose a profession where the first amendment is your lifeblood, you are, more than likely, going to support causes/politicians who show greater concern for civil liberties than their opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
We get the liberal or left-leaning slant nearly every time...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because someone votes for a democrat doesn't mean that they give you a "left-leaning slant." I think this is where the claims of liberal media bias miss the mark. The same can be said of college professors --- just because they might tend to be more liberal doesn't necessarily lead to liberal indoctrination.

[ThaSaltCracka]

MMMMM is right, for the most part most reporters are left leaning, however it was also found that most editors were found to be more conservative.

[paland]

[ QUOTE ]
Guilt by association? Sure, in this extreme case.

[/ QUOTE ]
You've got to be kidding me! You don't really feel this way do you? I know some hillbillys do but not intelligent people. Thats why we in the USA have a constitution, to protect it's citizens from Government abuse. Unfortunately GWB's goon squad has torn that document up.

I bought a Glock 37 a few months ago. It's a beautifuI 45 caliber pistol that cost $750 with the extra's. I bought it not because I fear from a terrorist, but because I fear from people that think like above. Mostly ignorant redneck types. These kind of thinkers that you just mentioned (I'm really hoping that you are joking) are a much larger threat to American freedoms than any terrorist ever dreamed of accomplishihg. This type of thinking is exactly what the terrorist want, an America that has no freedom or rights.

[ACPlayer]

By the way, it's also true that by far most college professors are liberal or left-leaning, Democrat rather than Republican

I would tend to agree that most professors are liberal, if you limit the topic to social liberalism. That is they are more likely to be pro-choice, anti-guns, for human rights, prefer peace to war, against the death penalty etc.

I also suspect that this has to do with the fact that they are generally better educated than the general population. Good education generally makes people more willing to challenge the status quo (and social conservatives are more likely to want to keep the status quo) and believe that there may be better ways to do things than what has been previously been done.

I dont know if college professors are economically more or less liberal than the populace.

[jokerswild]

Just what a true brown shirt would say. Like the Reichstag, you blame who you are told to blame. Many posters here have identified MMMMMMMMM as a fascist. Your true brown shirt colors muddy the reputation of believers in liberty.

[MMMMMM]

Horsesh!t. Anyone hanging out in Afghanistan with al-Qaeda and the Taliban is the fascist who is trying to kill YOU. Take the blinders off.

[MMMMMM]

Bullcrap. Anyone hanging out in al-Qaeda training camps should have had a bomb dropped on their heads along with all the other terrorists.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt is RETARDED.

[MMMMMM]

I'm not talking about commentators, I'm talking about reporters who commentate or slant their stories instead of pure reportage. The biggest name reporters in the U.S. slant their stories while giving us the news instead of just reporting.

[MMMMMM]

As I said, he should have had a bomb dropped on his head in Afghanistan. I agree that we should not terribly mistreat those we captured alive. The problem though is that those who are ideologically committed to violent inernational jihadism, once captured, can never be safely released. In a sense, their own deluded minds have consigned them to a dismal fate.

[ACPlayer]

You know I almost feel sorry for you. It must be tough living in a perpetually paranoid state of self delusion and denial while single mindedly following the extreme right wing nonsense that has hijacked your thinking.

Perhaps some therapy would be advisable.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have the option of either capturing them or killing them (assuming that it is just as "safe" to capture as to kill) then it is morally wrong to kill.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If they are committed to wage violent war against us eternally, why is it wrong to kill them? A mad dog must be killed. And even though I do not generally favor the death penalty, I think those like Jefrey Dahmer or Son of Sam should be killed, because they are incorrigibly sick and will remain a grave menace to others as long as they remain alive. I don't think it is wrong to kill a virulent virus, or an incorrigible serial killer, or a jihad warrior who will never change his views and who will always plot to injure and destroy us, or a terrorist who delihgts in taking innocent life, or a tyrannical dictator such as Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong-il.

[jokerswild]

Don't expect Americans that believe in the Bill of Rights to cower to your fascist rantings.

[MMMMMM]

If you knew as much as I, you would probably agree with my views. My views are only reflective of the realities of today's world (and some timeless realities as well).

Perhaps I should stop casting pearls before those incapable of appreciating them.

[MMMMMM]

I believe strongly in the Bill of Rights. I also believe that terrorists and nogoodniks hanging out with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan should have had bombs dropped on their heads.

[ACPlayer]

If you knew as much as I

Arrogant on top of everything.

I suspect that Hitler would have said much the same thing if asked about the Jews.

I suspect that all those b*****ds who have in the name of knowing it all have killed entire populations would say the samething.

I gave you good advice, take it!

[jokerswild]

You tilt so easily that you shouldn't play poker. No one that believes in the Bill of Rights advocates summary execution of purported terrorists.

By the way, the system is working. There will be indictments handed down implicating high level officials in the 2nd Reich administration for outing the CIA covert op Plume. Cheney has hired private defense legal counsel. Bush probably will, too.

[MMMMMM]

They're not mere "purported" terrorists if they're cavorting with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Why don't you and Chris Alger get together and draft the first Terrorists' Bill of Rights?