Why do I do this

[Non_Comformist]

I have discovered that I have a major leak in my game and what's even more frustrating is that I know what iti is but I still do it.

When I have an overpair that I think it good on the flop (recent example JJ on 775 board, I do not fold after it becomes obvious to anyone not playing that I am beat. Afterwards I feel like such an idiot. It is as if I shut off during the hand or soemthing. What compels me to do this and how do I fix it?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

One thing you can do is to not get so aggressive on flops that could leave you drawing very slim. Let's take a typical situation...

You raise a couple limpers with KK. Flop 772. They check to you, you bet, two call. What did they call with? While the occasional moron will call with like J6 or A3, usually, with a multiway pot, someone has the seven and plans to check-raise the turn. So you check behind on the turn. You are really not risking much here, except the occasional ace on the river for an A3o calling moron. Then you call the river. You save $ when you are beat and you pick them off when you aren't.

try it.

al

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
You raise a couple limpers with KK. Flop 772. They check to you, you bet, two call. What did they call with? While the occasional moron will call with like J6 or A3, usually, with a multiway pot, someone has the seven and plans to check-raise the turn. So you check behind on the turn. You are really not risking much here, except the occasional ace on the river for an A3o calling moron. Then you call the river. You save $ when you are beat and you pick them off when you aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great advice.

From a psychological standpoint, I think it's as simple as the fact that big hands, JJ-AA (I know some don't consider JJ a BIG hand, but bear with me), come up so rarely, that when we hit a flop with overcards, part of our mind says "we've got an overpair! No WAY someone has us beat!"

When we get different signals, usually on the turn, I think it's easy to still think maybe our hand is good, and pop back with a three-bet "Take THAT!". Sometimes in this situation I'll even convince myself "maybe he has a lower overpair" and still merrily bet along, but I know I'm fooling myself.

I like Al's advice. It's easy to get emotionally attached to AA and KK, feeling that they should be unbeatable. Maybe taking a strategic approach to the hand, by trying a new "technique" a few times will help save some bets.

[Michael Davis]

I don't think 772 is a trouble flop for KK. My opponents stick around with all sorts of garbage on 772 flops.

If you think they will checkraise the turn with a seven, why not just fold to the checkraise? You lose the same as would if you called a bet on the river, losing the opportunity to draw to a 2-outer.

I don't think your opponents have a 7 that often here. I would only consider this play against certain mediocre players. Against bad players who will call with anything, you have to bet. Against good players who will look you up with ace high because it will sometimes be good, you also bet.

-Michael

[Dan Mezick]

Skip "why" for now.

As an exercise in finding a workable solution to this problem, you might consider the following:

Before you sit down, play this little 'side game' with yourself. Imagine that the player you respect the most, or even the poker book author you respect the most, is going to be sitting behind you watching all your actions.

Imagine this person is your genuine friend, and is there to observe you and help you.

Play at all times as if this person is there, and has seen your hole cards. You respect this friend, and you want this friend to respect the quality of your play.

If this solution seems to work, you can refine this to the point it is no longer needed.

This technique is suggested in a certain well-known poker text.


Recognizing danger....

http://www.primatepoker.com/images/snake-ouch.jpg
Is not the same as getting out of the way.

[Non_Comformist]

I like that idea thanks

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi

Dan's suggestion about imagining that someone you respect is "watching your play" is an excellent one. In fact, your Babe uses this technique in a slightly different way.

My mantras are "what would xxxxx do" here? And, "I have to tell XXXXX about this hand". At times, I have had to grit my teeth and just "do it" Babe. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

As an aside, I think Dan will become one of my best boyz if his recent posts are indicative of his actual lifestyle. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif I like the way he thinks.!

LGPG,


Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[CrisBrown]

Hi NonConformist,

I'll meld a little of Al's advice, and a little of Dan's.

First, from a theory perspective, it's important to know the difference between "big pot" and "small pot" hands, and how that changes depending on the table, and your specific opponent in a specific pot. A "big pot" hand is one that is likely be -- or very likely to make -- a best hand that will hold up all the way to the river AT THIS TABLE, WITH THIS OPPONENT. A "small pot" hand is one that might be -- or might make -- a best hand, but one that can easily be outdrawn by the river. Overpairs and TPTK, second and third pairs, pocket pairs on painted flops, sets on monotone flops, ignorant straights, straight draws on two-tone flops or paired board flops, flush draws on paired board flops, are all "small pot" hands.

With a "big pot" hand, I'm hoping for a bet ahead of me so I can raise, and I'm playing to get as much money as I can into that pot (whatever that requires). With a "small pot" hand, I'll generally bet the flop if I'm in position and it's checked to me, trying to take it right there. But if I'm called, I'm going to slow down and try to keep the pot small unless my hand improves.

That's the theory part. For the psychological part, once you know the theory and how it fits into a given hand at a given table vs. a given opponent, yes ... it's often good to imagine that there's a coach or critic sitting on your shoulder, seeing your hole cards, and who will expect you to explain your actions later. You know the coach/critic is looking at the situation and saying "that's a small pot hand," and if you make it a big pot, you'll have to justify it to the coach/critic after the game.

That will usually keep you out of trouble.

Cris

[The WET BEAVER]

Al Capone's advice is right. I think you haven't even read HEPFAV. There is a play called inducing bluffs, something you never heard of.

[The WET BEAVER]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't think your opponents have a 7 that often here.


[/ QUOTE ]


That's your problem. You don't think they will have a 7 that often, because you don't want them to have a 7.

When mediocre players try to read hands, they always put them on a hand they can beat.

Kind of like when someone raises preflop, they put them on AK.
If a K flops, then their read changes to AQ
If a Q comes on the turn, their read becomes AJs
If a T comes on the river, then their reads changes to 99.

[sin808]

Excellent advice. I have this problem somewhat myself. Matter of fact I walked into 2 c/r on turn cards, once with AA the other with QQ today...At least when I had the QQ I forced myself to fold it. I believe this would definately save more bets than I lose out on when mhig though.