another 15-30 hand

9 handed live game. utg (loose aggressive player) limps. next player (tight strong player) raises. bad player on the button calls. i call in the bb with KhQd. should i fold here everytime?


the flop is AhJc7h. i check, utg checks, raiser bets, button folds, i call, utg check-raises, raiser makes it 3 bets, i fold.


good fold or should i call two cold here (backdoor nut flush draw and gutshot to the nuts)?

I would fold KQoff in this spot every time unless I was on tilt in which case I would call, call and call again!!

The raise from early pos from a good player behind a limp is a bad spot to play this hand which is vastly devalued in most raised pots - especially this one - quite close though cos if I had KQs I'd probably play.

this is a fold. The 3rd player hurts more than helps, and can make you have to pay multiple bets on any given round. Unless the players are both very loose (and the raiser a very loose raiser), you should fold.


When it's 2 more bets to you on the flop, I would fold.


Dan Z.

"When it's 2 more bets to you on the flop, I would fold."


okay just checking. mason's "hand to talk about" below was similar on the flop (although he had the button, he incorrectly thought his A was an out, and many seemed to think his flop call of two more bets cold was fine).


of course a T came on the turn otherwise i wouldve forgotten about this hand long ago. which i will now do.


thanks.

Preflop: I'd call getting 7:1. Just don't get trapped.


Flop: Original call seems to be a no-brainer. When it comes back around, it seems close, but a fold is probably correct. The real risk is having a heart hit on the turn and then getting stuck in a raising war between the other two players.

I'd call pre-flop if I've never seen the loose aggressive player utg limp re-raise. If i think there is a decent chance of limp re-raise this hand goes into the muck.


When it is two back to me on the flop I'd fold. This is a little different than the hand Mason posted. At least one of your opponents has an ace, two pair or trips so a king or queen wouldn't be good.


Also, there is a good chance that you're up against AK, AQ, AJ or a set. If you're against a AK or AQ, you will occassionally only win half the pot. If you are up against AA, AJ, JJ or 77 you could be outdrawn on the river even if you make your straight on the turn and have to pay off.

I think there are a few key differences between this hand and Mason's.


First, as you say, Mason had the button, and you are first to act on this hand.


Second, Mason was the preflop raiser, so UTG was expecting his check raise to be a field narrowing check raise (indicating a weaker hand). In your hand, UTG was on the preflop raiser's right, so was expecting his check raise to trap the field for an extra bet (indicating a stronger hand).


Third, the reraise came from a wild 3rd party in Mason's hand. In your hand, the tight strong preflop raiser made it 3 bets.


Finally, Mason had an ace overcard against limpers. You have K and Q undercards against a strong preflop raiser.


I would play the same as you on the flop, but I would fold preflop with KQo in the BB against a tight, strong preflop raiser who is not in a steal position. There are just too many ways to be dominated, so you can't play your hand strongly in the face of aggression unless you make at least two pair. Even if the EV is slightly better than even for your preflop call when you play well, why raise your blood pressure and SD unnecessarily when you are out of position and don't have a hand that you can play strongly if you hit?