$15 - 30 Bellagio hand

$15 - 30 at The Bellagio on a Sunday afternoon.

The game is semi loose typical with a couple of weak locals and tourists mixing it with a some decent albeit loose pros and local players.

A weak local player calls in early position a decent but not great playing tourist raises in the middle and a loose/deceptive pro calls on the button.

I'm in the BB with Ad2d and call.

We see the flop 4 handed it is Kd 8d 3c

I lead the weak local calls, the tourist raises and the pro coldcalls. I reraise and the local folds, the tourist calls and the pro reraises - we all call.

The turn is a Ts and I check, the tourist bets and the pro calls - I call.

The river is Ac

We all check

Any comments?

Results posted later

Payoff,


For what it's worth, I think that your play is fine here, except that I probably wouldn't three-bet the flop; better to let the weak local in, rather than push him out and reopen the betting(if tourist reraises, you might lose the pro) as, it seems, that an ace may not help you anyway(so far). I'm guessing that the tourist should have something like K-Q given his check on the river. The "pro's" gotta have something like a biggish suited K or J-Td, can't figure him for anything else; don't see how you can bet the river, but I'm guessing that when they check, you're good.


Hope you won it,


Mike

I agree with Mike about the 3 bet. Same reasons.

The tourist held TT and won the pot with a set of tens.

The pro on the button did not show but I get the feeling my Ace was in 2nd place - oh well - the place money always sucks in poker.

One of the underlying questions here in this hand is when is it correct to jam the pot with a nut flush draw with an overcard - just how many people need to be in for it to be correct to jam it on up - on the flop at least.

Was this particular situation right for thuis kind of play?

Payoff,


I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how many players you need to make this play, it (the overcard)seems unimportant anyway in a situation where there is a good chance that it's no good(as had seemed possible here). It seems to me that the important factor w/ nut flush draws is getting in a raise when it looks like everyone is going to be tied on for an extra bet, and it is unlikely that another player can/woll put enough pressure on them to drive them out; of course having good position always helps make these determinations and since you didn't in this case, I think that should be a strong consideration. In this spot three-betting cost you the first limper and could have cost you the pro(if tourist reraises) and now you've put in four bets on the flop, out of position against only one player who you might be drawing to only the flush against, in which case, I think, you'd rather still have the others in the pot if you make your hand.


Hope that made some sense,


Mike

I can't believe the tourist checks the river. He must have feared pocket AA's. I don't know why. I think someone would have put a reraise in preflop with that hand.

I'm not sure exactly what the pot has to lay in this spot to make jamming an overlay - 2 other players is the guide I use in this spot but I may be wrong.

All the money in the pot Before the flop has an impact on the play on the flop too but I certainly agree the 3 bet on the flop was a marginal play to say the least but I thought the weak local would probably come for another 2 bets and that the tourist would need AA or KK to 4 bet - did not put him on that.

Once again -thanks for all the comments

However I'm still unsure of whether it is correct to jam it up in similar spots - can anyone answer this question?

Technically, you need 3 other people calling flop bets to make them profitable when you have a flush draw and need to make a flush to win, although with 2 other people you are losing very little. I think, though, that we are missing a larger and far more important point with this line of thinking. When the it came back to you raised the pot was getting large. Obviously, you were going to be competing for this large pot until at least the river. Therefore, you need to do whatever you can to eliminate opponents. At this point (remember that the pro has not yet reraised) it is actually possible (although highly unlikely) that your hand is good. Even if it is not, there still seems to be multiple ways you can win. Besides the flush, an ace or even a duece may be enough to win. Maybe, if you get it down to 2 players, you can bluff on the river.


When the pot gets big, I think you should do whatever it takes to increase your chances of winning it, even if it costs you slightly in decreased expectation.


I have 3 bet in this spot before and everyone has folded. Right there.