JJ hand

[DaveB]

I feel uneasy about this one... how bad was it?

Pary 1/2 6 max, 5 players, I have J /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the BB. UTG folds, all call to me, I raise. Flop is

T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, I bet, CO calls, button raises, all call. Turn is

4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, it's checked through. River is

K /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to button who bets, I raise...

[TazQ]

The way it played out I rather go for overcalls on the river.

[bukkrukk]

When in doubt - raise. I´m pretty sure I would play it the same way.

[Peter_rus]

I would't raise on river for 2 reasons:

1. You don't know if someone has a K or Q.
2. You will not push out Q by your raise at 100%.
3. You can gain extra bets if you're winning by lesser diamonds call while you can push by your raise beated hands. It's clear call i think.

[PassiveCaller]

This is a good inclination... Overcalling is superior here as you give even smaller diamonds and other questionable hands here a chance to call. You aren't really protecting your hand here with a raise and you aren't going to make anything better fold but might face a third bet from the Kd or even Qd and that would make me sick.

[DaveB]

Hmm, I actually was more concerned with the turn. On the river I was fairly certain I had the best hand and was trying for 2 or 4 bets rather than 1 or 2. What about checking vs. betting out on the turn?

[Apocalypse]

well if you are "sure" you're holding the best hand with jack of diamonds (ppl need to tell me how they do this one of days /images/graemlins/mad.gif) and you know they would "all" fold to a turn bet you picked the right line. In any other case, i bet out the turn and give those babydiamonds that might swarm around a chance to dream of such a big pot. You're crushing that dream by cr'sing a bet in late position and they fold accordingly...

edit: o and what other ppl said about the risk of a 3-bet by a K or Q of diamonds.

[PassiveCaller]

What diamond is going to go that many bets with you except one that beats you on the river? Unless you have really horrible opponents I just don't see this.

By checking on the turn you've induced more hands then diamonds to bet or call on the river. If you call on the river you give the other 2 parties a chance to call and if one of them does it's neutral to raising (they probably wont call 2 with your reraise unless they have you beat) Plus you have a chance at a 2nd or even 3rd overcaller with no risk of a 3-bet which almost always is going to be bad.

On the turn you are either way ahead or way behind and there isnt anything you want to fold here except the Qd
and Kd which won't but... you could make some hands that were borderline much more interested in seeing a showdown
with the check.

[Apocalypse]

[ QUOTE ]
What diamond is going to go that many bets with you except one that beats you on the river? Unless you have really horrible opponents I just don't see this.

[/ QUOTE ]

its party 1/2 pay attention

[fyodor]

I think by the river you can be almost certain the Jack is good but when it is your turn to act first on the turn you have no idea. The button after all just raised the flop.

That still is no reason to not lead out on the turn though. If he has the flush at all it could easily be 78 or 89 or something. If you lead and he raises with 4 diamonds out there you have to give him credit for at least the Queen and you can fold.

If you check the turn and he bets it you still have no idea what he has. So do you checkraise and fold to a 3bet? It's cheaper to lead yourself.

Once the turn got checked around I think betting the river is best. That way you might get a call from the CO. I realize there is a good chance you can induce a semi-bluff from the Button who probably has smaller diamonds but when you checkraise him the CO is gone for sure and the Button might not even call (although he probably will) The Button might surprise you though and check the river as well in which case you get nothing.

In short I don't like the way you played it but I'm just learning myself.

[PassiveCaller]

good point. got what was coming to me there...
no fun! /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[ctv1116]

Just for future reference, 2+2 poster bisonbison (usually posts on SS and Micro) created this great hand converter. You simply input the hand history from the poker site and the program will convert into a easily readable 2+2 format.


http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi

[Ulysses]

Bet the river.

[DaveB]

Thanks for the replies. I was just rereading my message because of some of them and I neglected to mention one little thing - one of the players folded on the flop, so there were only 3 of us on the turn and river. I'll have to try that HH converter... I tried one of them and it didn't work for me (probably operator error).

Anyways, after I raised, the CO folded and th button called with AT no diamond... MHWG.

Ulysses - you said bet the river - but what is your play on the turn?

thanks again

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Ulysses - you said bet the river - but what is your play on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-call. If someone bets, check-call the river.

[PassiveCaller]

ahh.. ok.... changes things a bit.

I'd take the same line as Ulysses then.

[stripsqueez]

i dont have many hands at the party 1/2 game - none the less i think this hand is way easy from how i percieve that game to be - bet the turn and bet the river

holding a strong hand doesnt have to be hard

this game is marked by players who will call a lot and draw a lot even though likely drawing dead - its not marked with guys who will bluff a lot but there are lots of guys who assume that you are

i expect that i might get a diamond-less ace to call the turn - i dont expect a small diamond to bet all the time when i check the turn but i'm nearly certain they will call

to me checking the turn is a horribly pessimistic way to play a strong hand

stripsqueez - chickenhawk