Another One... Softie Line? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Schneids

06-09-2004, 09:18 PM

Nick B. is at this table and is UTG, not involved in the hand. I don't know much about SB. I know CO is a semi-clown. His cold call on the flop means somehow he has a piece of the board, be it a draw or an actual hunk of it. He is also aggressive enough to raise bluff, which I confirmed when he check raise bluffed me on the river of a T987 board when I had 99.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schneids is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Schneids raises, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Schneids raises, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Schneids checks, CO checks.

River: (6 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Schneids checks, CO bets, SB folds, Schneids calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB
Main Pot: 8 BB, between CO and Schneids. > Pot won by CO (8 BB).

Results in white below: 
Schneids shows As Ks (two pair, aces and eights).
CO shows Td Jc (straight, queen high).
Outcome: CO wins 8 BB.

stripsqueez

06-09-2004, 09:39 PM

weird that i read this after replying to vehn's Mr Smartypants #2 post

this is taking a position and sticking to it - we can debate whether you should take that position but its best to be at the table even when the table is on a computer screen

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Schneids

06-09-2004, 10:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
weird that i read this after replying to vehn's Mr Smartypants #2 post

[/ QUOTE ]
And I read Vehn's post right after making my post /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
this is taking a position and sticking to it - we can debate whether you should take that position but its best to be at the table even when the table is on a computer screen

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's what I'm wondering about. CO from the first hand is the antagonist in this hand, as well:

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schneids is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $15.
1 fold, MP calls, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Schneids checks,

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Schneids bets, MP calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Schneids bets, MP folds, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Schneids checks, CO bets, Schneids calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Main Pot: 8.25 BB, between CO and Schneids. > Pot won by Schneids (8.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
Schneids shows Ts 4s (two pair, tens and fives).
CO shows Ks 9c (one pair, fives).
Outcome: Schneids wins 8.25 BB. 

Basically, with my plan in the first hand, I was pretty sure CO would bet the turn and/or river if checked to no matter what he held. But since he cold called the flop, I could narrow his range of hands down to an 8, 9, or draw. So when the ace came, I figured a check would work best in saving me money when i'm losing, while still likely get some money when i'm winning, and give me more info about his hand... So after checking the turn, I deduced he's probably on a draw, definitely doesn't have an ace, but might have a small pocket pair. So, I was all ready to finish the plan and the river completed what I perceived to be his most likely holding, and this became a "tough, easy" check/call to make. As I said, it was pretty certain a river bet was coming no matter what he had, in my views at the time.

This is my line better explained, now, I'm curious if people think it's optimal or not against these opponents?

stripsqueez

06-09-2004, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious if people think it's optimal or not against these opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

your read on this opponent defies a default analysis - when you say "these opponents" i am loath to put them in a category

if your opponent calls the flop on the first hand with say Q10 then not betting the turn could be a big mistake - if your feel is that an 8 is lurking then its not a big mistake - checking the turn is taking a "big" position - not so big that its silly in my view - i think check/calling the river for the reasons stated marks you as a fine player because you had a good plan (maybe not the best plan) and you stuck to it

i think you could get carried away with the idea that this guy will repeatedly bet when checked to - its a cheap shot - a half brained player will adjust after 2-3 examples

stripsqueez - chickenhawk