Botched hand on every street?

30-60. I am in the small blind with red pocket tens. UTG folds, next player, somewhat aggressive and slightly on the loose side, raises. All fold to the cut-off, a terrible, loose player, who calls. Button folds, I call big blind folds. 3 players, $210 pot.


Flop is Tc-3s-2s giving me top set. I check. Original raiser bets, cut-off calls, I call. Still the 3 of us $300 pot.


Turn is 9s making board Tc-3s-2s-9s. I bet. Original raiser raises, cut-off cold calls and I call. Still the 3 of us $660 pot.


River is 4h making board Tc-3s-2s-9s-4h. I check, original raiser bets, cut-off calls, and I call.


Results tomorrow. All comments appreciated.

"Results tomorrow. All comments appreciated."


I like the title. :-)


"I am in the small blind with red pocket tens. . . . I call."


Nothing botched so far.


"Flop is Tc-3s-2s giving me top set. I check. Original raiser bets, cut-off calls, I call."


C-c-c-c-call???


My thoughts on the turn are river are blank. Nothing there. Without ruffling some feathers on the flop the hand feels like oh well gotta see this through since they have no idea how good my hand is. No reason to fold, no reason to stay, might as well stay.


Tommy

With the raiser already called by the cutoff, I don't think there is anything wrong with just calling preflop and seeing how you like the flop.


Given your relative position on the flop, you are in an excellent spot to check raise either now or the turn, putting the terrible player in the cutoff on the installment plan. I would probably go for the check raise on the flop, as it should make the preflop raiser more likely to call the turn with only overcards. If he has an overpair, he may reraise for you and still give you the chance to check raise the turn. Of course, if he's tricky he might reraise the flop with overcards and then check behind on the turn. Just use your player knowledge to decide how you can get the most money in the pot.


On the turn, I hate the fact that you don't check raise now after you didn't show strength on the flop. It's definitely too early to give anyone credit for a flush, and you have most of their likely holdings drawing dead unless they have a spade. Even when you are losing to a flush you have plenty of outs. But, you already know all of this which I assume is why you were so unhappy with your play on this hand. /images/smile.gif


Another missed check raise on the river. I hope you managed to win the hand, rather than save a few bets.

"C-c-c-c-call???"


I'm afriad, Y-y-y-y-yes! Played this one probably pretty similar to the way you played the one behind the gym with Marci Johnson.


Despite this hand, and several others where I played like a scared spitless naif, I won 2 racks today. Funny how the bad plays gnaw at you and the goods ones fade from memory.

Andy,


Calling with TT out of position against two or three opponents is my play before the flop but a reraise can’t be that bad.


On the flop your check and call is fine given there is only one reasonable draw possible. This assumes you plan to get the big money in on the turn.


On the turn a three flush is now out but why not gamble by going for the checkraise? It is highly unlikely this round gets checked through when an undercard turns. Given that you bet and were raised by the early player why not make it three bets? A flush is an unlikely holding by the cutoff seat since he didn’t raise and you can gamble against the one early opponent that could have it.


On the river you should bet since this round could easily get checked through. And if you don’t bet finally gamble a little and go for the checkraise. Once again a flush is not as likely as a worse hand that pays you off.


Regards,


Rick

well here is my take


Preflop- call is fine, good chance you have best hand so far. I would raise only if I knew my opponents were easily intimidated, (doesn't seem like that is the case here) as you are out of position and overcards are likely on the flop.


Flop- I definately checkraise here to charge the flush draws the premium. Maybe preflop raiser really has a big pocket pair this time and pops it back. (now you can decide to smoothcall or cap it)


Turn- oops, spades hit. I check-call here (baaaak, baaaak)


River-well how bad is the cutoff? He has called two cold on the turn with spades out there. So I check call again.


hillbilly- I'm not alwayes this predictable!Honest!

I like calling with a medium pair like tens from the small blind against two or three opponents.


I would check raise this flop, since it is unlikely that somebody else has the case ten, so you need to make money off the draws while you still have betting power.


Would you have bet out on the turn if a non-spade hit the turn also? Personally, I'd be more likely to check-raise the turn when a spade hits than when a blank hits since the button could have bet the flop on a draw. If the button is on a draw, then he'll probably take a free card when a blank hits, which is a disaster. If a spade hits, the button will still probably bet, either as a bluff or with a pair to keep singleton spades or overcards from beating him.


In summary, I'd bet the turn if a non-spade hit, and check-raise if a spade hit.


Once you get raised on the turn, I think check calling the river is fine, since if he's on a draw he'll probably bluff the river but won't call a bet.

Pre-flop:

What I was thinking: "I've got pocket tens. With the cut-off likely to stay until the river no matter what I do, there's no sense reraising. I'll just call and see what flops."


What I should have been thinking: "Big blind is very tough, I need to get him out. Reraise, get him out, and take charge of the hand."


On the flop:

What I was thinking: "Raiser is pretty aggressive, I'll let him bet here, cut-off will call, and I'll just call (he-he). Then he'll bet again on the turn, cut-off will call, and I'll administer the Fekali enema then."


What I should have been thinking: "You flopped a set. Check-raise them now, get more money into the pot to tie them on. Original raiser may have just two high cards and he may check the turn, especially if a spade comes."


Rick: you hit it on the head. Now your zigging at the right time!


Thanks to all.


On the turn:

What I was thinking: "A spade. I better bet here lest they both check."


What I was thinking when he raised me: "Crap, he'g got a flush."


What I should have been thinking when he raised me: "He raised so quickly. Why would he raise with the nut flush here with the loosey-goose behind him? There's no way he has a small flush, having raised up front pre-flop. The worse he has is Ks-Qs, and he'd just call with that hand too."


What I was thinking when the cut-off overcalled: "Crap, if the

raiser doesn't have a flush, he must."


What I should have been thinking: "He didn't make it 3 bets, he could have anything, most likely just one high spade. Reraise."


What I was thinking when a blank hit on the river: Same thing I thought on the turn.


What I should have been thinking on the river: Same thing I thought on the turn.


Original raiser had pocket 9 for a set of 9s, cut-off had pocket 3s for a set of 3s and my set of 10s won.

I did manage to win, see the results below. But I sure played it bad, your analysis here is right on. Thanks for the input.

Well, I generally prefer to checkraise the flop but of course, looking to checkraise the turn is a viable alternative particularly against an aggressive preflop raiser.


I like your bet on the turn because with the 3rd spade on the board, even aggressive opponents may check against 2 oppponents who just called the flop bet.


When the preflop raiser makes it $120 to go on the turn, I would be inclined to put him on an overpair (possibly with a redraw to spades) as opposed to a flush. The reason for this is obvious: Preflop raisers make flushes on the turn way less often than preflop limpers/raise callers. Further, an aggressive opponent will often think that if you had made a flush, you would have tried for a checkraise on the turn. Thus, he will (and probably should) raise with an overpair.


When the cut-off coldcalls the turn raise, there is a good chance that he is hoding the Ace of Spades and looking to find a fourth spade on the river. This makes it even less likely that the turn raiser has a made flush hand (i.e. he can now legitimately have only a few hands such as KsQs or KsJs that have your hand beat). Thus, I would no doubt make it 3 bets on the turn.


Now, given the river action (i.e. the cut-off calling), perhaps my turn read will prove to be wrong i.e. it now looks like the cut-off may in fact have a made flush. Nevertheless, I still think that a turn 3 bet was in order.


As for the river (given the way the hand actually played out), I would call.

Well, just went to the results after posting my analysis. 3 sets on one hand. Jeez, if only the 9 on the turn had been an offsuit one....

Haven't looked at the result yet. Here's my take on the situation. I like the call of the raise preflop. On the flop I like checkraising here. You may get 3 bet on the flop by the raiser with a bunch of hand. And the bad player is probably going to call everything because he's bad. So pump this pot, with the 2 spades on the flop he will not know if you have a big hand or a draw. Or just top pair.


If I had just called the flop the way you did, your betting the turn is okay because you might not get the checkraise on the turn now when the spade comes and you want to protect your hand and make them pay to draw. When he reraises the turn I think you should reraise. He's much more likely to have a big pair then a flush and the other guy would probably raise himself on the turn if he had a flush. And considering the fact that he is a bad player it looks like he is just fishing along. So I would reraise and punish everyone to see the river. Then bet out on the river.

Why not either check- raise with top set, or lead out with it? If the cut-off is truly as bad as you say, he'll probably call your bet anyway.