Wrestling his half away

It took me almost two years to win this pot. I should probably chop it with skp, since it was something he wrote a long time ago that I've been thinking about ever since and looking for just the right moment. The sad part is, I'm not even sure this WAS the right time and maybe I made a moronic play and risked way too much money. What do you think?


I limped after two limpers with ATs and was raised by a player who played nothing but solid hands, but raised too liberally with them IMO-. The blinds folded and we all called. 4-way.


The came AK7r. It was checked to me and I bet. The pre-flop raiser raised. *I was almost positive this player didn't have AA,KK or AK as he ALWAYS waits til the turn*. Everyone folded to me and I called.


The turn was a 7. I checked, he bet, I raised. I didn't REALLY think he'd fold AQ or AJ, but I thought it was worth a try. He hesitated and called.


The river was a 3. I checked again fully expecting to split it up, when he bet! Am I adhering to my read too rigidly? He doesn't have AA,KK or AK! A seven would be so unlikely for him. Much more unlikely than me. I raised. He flashed an ace and whipped his cards into the muck.


If I played this foolishly, blame skp. But I suppose I should thank him for my undeserved half of the pot...

Great play. This opponent can't read hands worth a damn, can he?

If he could, you either have 77 or a raw ace.


Would he really wait with AK with the gutshot-likely board? This seems like a pretty silly strategy, but if it is the case, you did pick the right time.


Dan Z.

"He flashed an ace and whipped his cards into the muck."


Tsk, tsk. You outthink him and then he compounds the error by showing his hand.


"my undeserved half of the pot..." You deserved the whole thing. It was he who undeserved half. (I love that last sentence.)

Dan Z's post about reading hands is right on the mark.


I'm noticing another reason your opponent's play is terrible: The betting on the river is fishy.


What's his bet on the river for? If you checkraised the turn with less than aces up, then he's caught you already and you can't call the river. So, if you call the river then the best he can hope for is a split. This bet can't be a bluff, and it can't be for value.


And because of this, your river checkraise can't be planned either. You shouldn't expect him to bet, so a better hand would bet out, not checkraise. This is especially clear since you just checkraised the turn. Almost always you would follow with a lead bet on the river.


Mental note for myself: if you make odd, last-chance, fancy play bets while planning to fold to a raise you can easily be outthinking yourself.

Thanks Dan- Not so sure it was a good play or not. I risked a lot of $$ hoping I was right. Right or wrong, there are many players I play with who very often wait until the turn to raise with a big hand here. With some (as with this guy), it is automatic and almost 100%.

Andy-


I've never understood why people feel a need to show their cards. I just started playing online and it seems even more prevelant there!


I don't mean to make fun of anyone, but it's hilarious to watch. I've actually spit my drink out onto my computer screen! Time and time again an AA or AK will crush A4s only to have the A4s show his cards as if to say, "See? I wasn't giving you all that money on NOTHING!! II,I,I, I had an ace too!!"


-The only time I show my cards is when proof is needed that the money in the center belongs to me /images/smile.gif -

"This bet can't be a bluff, and it can't be for value."


Oh contraire... I know of many greedy value bettors (I myself am sometimes one of them /images/smile.gif )


"Mental note for myself: if you make odd, last-chance, fancy play bets while planning to fold to a raise you can easily be outthinking yourself."


What's scarin' me, is that you seem to know who I am and I'm not at all sure who you are. I take it we've raised each other a time or two? You might want to add to your mental notes that I'm check/raising the river more nowadays and not necessarily as last ditch fancy plays. I've decided this was a slight leak in my game (I didn't do it enough).


btw- If he re-raised me on the river, I'm calling... I wouldn't have like it, but I'd call and pretty quickly.

I still think your opponent's value bet is captial-P Poor. After showing so much strength, it would be folly for you to call with less than aces up on the end. If you did have a worse hand than that, you could fold, or try to win this pot by raising the river. So your opponent bets planning to fold to a raise?


This bet is worse than negative expectation. I can't see a situation where the bet makes any money. It's strictly negative expectation. And in many cases, it loses the pot immediately because it's foregoing a free showdown.


Anyway, about making fancy plays but planning to fold for a raise ... I meant that with regards to his play. His bet is designed to get you to fold. But the board does not offer a means to bluff. The board screams out "split pot", yet it's not easy to have a stronger hand than that. Which means his bluff is only based on your strength. In other words, his bet suggests that you fold simply because you've shown strength before.


Lastly, I don't think we know each other. I'm in Boston.