Wild, Loose Games

I have a question about loose, wild games. I was sitting in a 9-18 game on the other day when a few wild players sat down and BOOM, pots were capped before the flop, on the flop and raised on the turn. $500+ pots were not uncommon and $300+ pots were very common. I feel that I am becoming a solid player(started on $.50-$1.00 on Paradise just 9 months ago and now am winning consistently at $9-18 and $6-12, but I don’t really know how to handle these loose, wild games. I love the action because the game is fun and interesting even when I am not involved in the pot and I try to play tighter in these games, but it’s just not as fun watching jokers take down $400 pots after cold calling 3 bets pre-flop with 9-5 suited. I know HEFAP says to play ONLY premium hands in these games but I am honestly playing to win AND have fun, and mucking time after time is just not enjoyable.


My questions are, what starting cards should be added to the repetoire in these games where it is continually 6+ handed and 2+ bets before it gets to you pre-flop? Or when you are early with something like A-Qoff and know it will be at least 3 bets behind you? Do pocket pairs or big suited cards work better in these games? With both of these hands, it seems that, depending on the texture of the flop, it will become correct to chase backdoor flushes and pocket pairs(if you think they will be good) to the river and they could end up costing a lot. Also, how should you play these games? I turned into somewhat of a calling station, limping and calling until I made a hand, as trick plays and bluffing have no value in these games since almost no one has the ability to lay down a hand and people were not respecting the raiser (very little “check-to-the-raiser”). Needless to say, I dropped almost 3 racks of red over 8 hours, double my largest loss in a session(I must admit I did go on “tilt” after having 3 consecutive good hands get beat on the river: AA, a flopped set of 2’s, and flopped 2 pair KQs), but I have always wondered about these games, since I seem to find myself in them once in a long while and have no idea what is a good strategy for them(The big winners were calling stations). I know people will say to avoid these games, but I find these games so rarely and I don’t mind the fluctuations, as my bankroll is large enough to withstand the occasional huge hit(I hope) so I will continue to play them if I find myself in one. I try to be very honest with myself and my play, and I know I played lousy(I knew it at that time but didn’t really care), so I am hoping for some constructive criticism, as well as suggestions. Thanks.


Prodigy

If you must play more hands than HPFAP21 recommends (which would limit you to AA-JJ and AK-Qs when the game gets this wild), I would add suited aces and pairs. These are the hands which are usually easy to throw away when you miss the flop, and which make big hands capable of beating a large field when you hit.


If it's getting 3 and 4 bet on every round, you have to remember that your odds to call down or draw haven't really changed any from if it was only 1-2 bets per round; the increased pot size is offset by the increased price of each betting round. If it's only super wild before the flop, then you can hang around when you flop almost anything and hope to make something cheaply by the river.


The major mistake people are making in this game is putting in so many bets before the flop without premium hands. If you start playing too many hands before the flop also, you are not playing much better than they are.

first off....how many winners did ya fold? hardly any? how much did ya save by not playin certain hands. thats a key stat. the advanced book also says that its boring to play these games because of your limited starting hands. however, if you have the bankroll, and a huge one at that, good luck. the more hands your in the more your variance. swings will be huge. you may well have lost 3 more racks of red tryin to keep up with em. i tend to see these games as lottery style and try to avoid em. in 6 handed you can almost play it like a passive table, and use normal position hands. maybe. again, yer swings will be large. 1 maniac is great, 2-4 is a pain in the ass...yeah it can be fun, but man can it be costly.


good luck..


b

Prodigy,


Since you want to be honest with yourself, ask yourself exactly why you play (I've asked this question of a few friends who play recreationally). Yes, there will be many days where you make money and have fun (even when you play well /images/smile.gif ). In the real world most people PAY to have "fun;" so do many people in poker-rooms(thank God), there is nothing wrong with this. If your goal is to only make money(while doing something that you basically enjoy anyway), you will not always have fun, the opposite is especially true. Many players try to balance the two at the expense of both...nothing wrong with this. If it helps any, try to find as much satisfaction in reading others' hands correctly or counting the money that you're saving while sitting out the hands that your better insticts (and those of others, i.e. S&M) tell you to do.


Coilean makes good suggestions above about extra starting hands in these types of games and remember Caro's Law of Least Tilt(I think that's what he called it): all other things being equal, the player who tilts least, gets the money. When you play the maniacs' game you are now just pushing your money back and forth with them, are at the mercy of luck, and, don't forget, every time you and the maniac push a stack back and forth, some of that money goes into a rake box, never.....to.....be.....seen.....again!!(unless,of course, you pay time)


Good Luck (who really needs GOOD luck anyway?)


Mike