Flop play and who bets/raises this river?

[Jaran]

SB is a chaser who plays almost every hand, MP3 thinks he's tricky (waiting 'til the river to raise and all that typical party "good player" stuff), but has usually been in line pf, although I'm not fond of his call here. What is your play when it gets raised on the flop? What about the river? On the turn, I meant to raise, but misclicked (but SB gave me the chance to cap it)

-Jaran



Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

[lil']

Must...bet...river.

Seriously, 3 of one suit does not = flush for an opponent.

[lowroller]

I think you're drawing too thin on the flop. I probably would have checked and folded.

[tiltaholic]

I agree- must bet that river. On the flop I definitely bet out and call the raise hoping the villian doesn't play his flush draws agressively. I think the odds justify that one completely.

Did he have the flush?

[dfscott]

If SB led out, I might've just called, but otherwise, I bet it. Once you check, with MP3 being the only better and SB still just calling, I'd raise this.

[Jaran]

MP3 shows A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif for a flopped 2pr, SB shows J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif for the turn 2pr and mhig. Thinking back on the hand, I realized that the flush was more unlikely w/the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the board, and definitely should have bet/raised the river. I put it to a whole bunch of hands getting rivered in the last two days. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Jaran

[MastiffPaul]

I don't understand your bet on the flop. Can we look at it a moment? With this flop, it seems like anyone who has paired the ace ruins your K and Q outs (until the turn and river two-pairs them or gives you three of a kind), you've got a gutshot straight draw (which I call to, if the pot odds are correct--is that right?), and a backdoor flush draw with your Q that may or may not be good. I would call for the gutshot if the odds are right, or otherwise fold. What does everyone think?

[tiltaholic]

Hi-
This is my (newb) viewpoint, so I'm not claiming I'm right:
In Party-land, it's pretty likely that someone has an ace, so I wouldn't be betting out expecting a K or a Q to win the pot. I'd bet out since
1. I wouldn't fear a raise from the table and
2. the pot odds before I act are 9:1 (almost there to call one to chase the J). since it's likely that someone will bet and I'd have the odds to "chase" the gutshot, I would rather bet out and be the aggressor. (weak aces may fold even - especially if you play for a while showing down no aces less than AJ - cleaning up the K and Q)

So, basically, yes, I'm playing the hand for the jack based on the odds.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 shows A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif for a flopped 2pr, SB shows J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif for the turn 2pr and mhig. Thinking back on the hand, I realized that the flush was more unlikely w/the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif on the board, and definitely should have bet/raised the river. I put it to a whole bunch of hands getting rivered in the last two days. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]


Its not less likely somebody has the flush just because an ace of the suit is on board. Definatly raise the river, if it's three bet I think you can just call.

[bakku]

You must bet/raise this river, from the action on the previous streets it's very unlikely MP3 has a flush, and I'd even be willing to cap the river with him. Also note the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif is out.

[Dieter01]

I like your play very much up until the river.

Not everyone would bet this flop, but I think you have to. And you most definitely have the odds to draw to a gutshot here, thats not even questionable.

I like the observation you make that the flush is less likely with an ace out there. I won't put a number on how much, but its worth keeping in mind.

Ace or not, you have to bet this river. I guess we all agree on that. In the words of the great Bisonbison: Do not fear the flush!