How to play SnGs against poor players....

[ClimbRock512]

I have been playing a lot of $10+1 SnGs on Party and have been doing very well. I feel as though my winning is based too much on luck. When I get decent cards, I play them correctly and I win. I think I might actually do better at higher limits because of the less clowniness factor, but my small bankroll prevents that for the time being.
I find that making a play on someone is very difficult to do because these poor players just defy logic. Maybe the only way is to just wait for good hands and play them. I have a few questions though.

1. Does anyone have a general strategy to beat poor players? I know my tournament theory quite well from playing with a handful of very strong players(one has played in WPT, many others have won tens of thousands in recent months in online tournies). Basically I think I'm prepared to play decent players, but poor players are just too illogical.

2. Anyone have any specific types of plays that work well against poor players? For example, when I'm short-stacked and I push to steal blinds in later rounds, I get called way more than I should by weak hands. Now I know I'm getting my money in with the best hand, but at that point, I'd rather take the blinds than risk busting.

3. How do I avoid situations like the following....?
blinds are 100/200
I am BB with 200 posted and 600 more in front of me.
folds to button who limps, 200 limp plus 555 left
SB folds.
I push with any two cards, my logic is the following...
He is either
A.) trapping with AA or KK at which point I'll prob lose no matter what(based on my stack size). or
B.) he has a hand hes looking to see a flop with, but he cannot risk all of his chips with, especially to a raise.

I figure B is far more likely, so I push.
He proceeds to call with A6o. Why?! I most likely have a stronger Ace or a pocket pair, both of which he is dominated with. And if he had A6o and intended to call an all in with it, why not push and attempt to steal the blinds, seems like a much better idea to me. He had the better hand, so in this situation, he made the correct play, but I don't understand how he can play that way? What can I do about this?

Input on any of the questions would be great, Thanks guys.

[citanul]

go find the "how to beat the party $10+1 sng" thread by aleomagus and another poster, or the sng faq, or any other such thread, since they will undoubtably have a link to those.

read them.
learn the search function of the site.

citanul

[Toro]

Any player, whether good or not, that limps in from the button for 200 and only has 550 left is likely to call when you raise in this spot. So I would play it like this. If you have very good hand that you figure is ahead, raise all-in before the flop. Otherwise, check and see the flop. If you catch a great hand, check and trap. If you don't catch, move all-in and try to buy it unless you believe there is no chance of this working which in this case you would check.

The mindset of the bad player is that no matter what hand he holds, he is going to catch that flop. Of course we know that he is going to miss completely about 2/3 of the time so your post flop bet has a much better chance for success.

[ScottTheFish]

Until it gets down to 5 or 6, I have a very simple plan: Bet and raise when i want them to call, not when I want them to fold. You'll earn WAY WAY WAY more chips from people calling you with worse hands than you will from people laying down decent hands to your bluffs and steals.

It's pointless to try and bully and make moves in the early stages of a low-limit SNG IMO. They will call you. They love to call big bets with second pair and draws and overcards and whatever other crap they happen to hold. It's like their religion. SO I bet when I want them to call.

When it's down to 4 or 5, the blinds are worth stealing. And the idiots are either gone or they have lucked into huge stacks they are just itching to throw away.

At that point I start playing some actual poker. Sometimes I never get any really good hands and I'm short stacked and the blinds are high and I have to take some chances. But that's ok. Can't win em all /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[AA suited]

"At that point I start playing some actual poker. Sometimes I never get any really good hands and I'm short stacked and the blinds are high and I have to take some chances. But that's ok. Can't win em all "

um..for me, at the late stages i've found "playing real poker" just to be 'who can be the luckier person of the coin toss." At these stages, it almost always end in coin toss where one person goes all in with marginal hand, and someone else calls with a marginal hand. ie: Ax, Kx, low pair

low pair vs 2 overcards (ak) = coin toss (52% vs 48%)

[BradleyT]

Moving from poor players to a game full of good players is not going to increase the amount you win.

[Bobby Digital]

I never bluff/steal until the 50/100 level. I rarely bluff if it isn't heads up. I try to take pots pre-flop from the tighter players. The loose players I try to play cheap pots with, hardly ever slowplay with them.

I attack the tight, medium stacks when they are in the blinds. Hopefully they are to your left. I do not usually attack the blinds with someone limping in front of me. Everyone is different, usually the poor players are very predictable. Some will never lay down a hand preflop, some nearly always will. One major thing is that a lot of players are unpredictable preflop but very tight on the flop. Usually these players are very straightfoward, check means take it, and a bet means you should get out. Many times I will just limp against these players and bet just about any flop. You have to watch all the players and try to figure out their patterns.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I never bluff/steal until the 50/100 level.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good idea at party low level sngs.

There are different types of poor players, the ones who will call anything and also the ones who never raise without a hand and rarely call your raises. You need to know which is which and be in a good position to take advantage of each type in the later stages. Passives are easier because they won't luck out on you and they will only call you even if they are ahead, they make it easy for you to control the tempo.

Just my thoughts on this.

Regards ML

[ScottTheFish]

[ QUOTE ]

um..for me, at the late stages i've found "playing real poker" just to be 'who can be the luckier person of the coin toss."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you would even play SNGs if you think it is that much of a crapshoot. I agree when it's heads up its a coin flip, but with 4 or 5 left there is some poker to be played.

[cassise]

One of the biggest things to remember when playing bad players is that you cant put moves on them. Your advantage over the bad player is that you know what hands you should and shouldn't play. If you wait untill you have an awsome hand you will be able to bust the weaker player much of the time because they will call with weak hands.

I find the best way to play against weaker players is to simple wait for a made hand, then bust them. One way to do this is to get more money then normal in pre-flop with a solid hand. Instead of a traditional pot size bet with AA, bet something slightly lower (so the weaker player will call)then on the turn bet heavier then normal. Weak players dont understand that once their chips are in the middle they are no longer theirs and will often times feel "pot comitted" when they are not really.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

um..for me, at the late stages i've found "playing real poker" just to be 'who can be the luckier person of the coin toss."

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you would even play SNGs if you think it is that much of a crapshoot. I agree when it's heads up its a coin flip, but with 4 or 5 left there is some poker to be played.

[/ QUOTE ]

like what? steal the blinds? and if they fight back and re-raise me, i have to decide to fold/push or do a stop&go. if i dont fold, then either way, i'm committed and it's usually another coin toss (my pocket pair vs his 2 over cards, or my Ax vs KQs).

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Don't trap with big hands. Push in. Poor players will call big bets with hands you beat, especially draws not getting correct odds. Plus, one characteristic of poor players is that they think people bluff more than they actually do.

I hear Dynasty's oft-repeated words..."worse hands will call."

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, one characteristic of poor players is that they think people bluff more than they actually do.


[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, that must be me. I always have this mortal fear that people are trying to play back at me when I've shown agression and are just trying to steal or buy my pot. I'd better stop doing that. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Grivan]

Jedi you would be surprised at how often people play back at you after you ahve shown aggression. It is not very often. This is why you need to bet especially in NL tournaments because you can be almost possitive that your opponent has a hand if he plays back. It takes real nerve to play back at someone, and it needs to work EVERY time you do it, because the one time it doesnt work you will lose a lot of chips. This makes it so people who are willing to play back generally don't make it very far unless they are very good at reading people. This is even more true when the blinds are high later in tournaments online.