PLO - opinions on betting with the nuts wanted

[tiltboy]

I'm a newcomer to PLO (and pretty much a newcomer to any type of Omaha high). I've read the Ciaffone Omaha book but when I play I literally have that thing open in my lap for guideance.

Playing $.5/1 PLO at Paradise the other day this situation presented itself to me on my first hand. I post in the cutoff and am dealt K /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif - normally a hand I'd muck outside the blinds and there are 2 callers and no raises before me. Button folds and both blinds also call so 5 of us see the flop of:

A /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif Under the gun bets the pot. All fold to me and I just call but both blinds still fold so we are heads up for the turn.

Another club the 5 falls and UTG again comes out firing, betting the pot. He has doubled his buyin previously, apparently by being very aggressive. I considered a raise here but wasn't sure how much he would call. What should my thinking be here? At this point I'd put him on a smaller flush but he may also have a redraw to a boat. If he also has is holding trips then there is about a 25% chance of the board pairing so do I pot it back on the chance he has redraws or try to milk a lower flush? I ended up betting half the pot and got called.

The river is a blank and it is checked to me and I again bet half the pot and get called.

Any thoughts on the play of the hand or the way you would have played it differently are greatly appreciated.

[curmudgeon]

In general, get as much as you can without betting the pot......
give no indication you have the nuts!

(your photo is horrid)

[curmudgeon]

please tell me something about the Paradise games and other good Omaha sites............

[jedi]

Not knowing THAT much about PLO (high only, right?), I would have called the flop to get the blinds to come along, but when the board does not pair on the turn, I would have raised the pot right back there. If he's got the set, you don't want to give him a cheap shot at a full house. If he calls anyways and hits, well you can start counting your Sklansky dollars there. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[MKR]

MKR

[Barbos]

I like your smooth call on flop (to invite other two guys to contend for the pot) but I'd certainly raise the pot on the turn. My thoughts are as follows:
UTG has either Quinn high flush or a set (playing online I see it pretty much that players bet out aggressively with top set even when there is a flush on the board).
If he has a set, just put him all-in since you're 3 to 1 favorite here and you do not want to guess what to do if the board paired on the river (especially if you both still have enough money - in this case you're good target for bluffing).
If he has a baby flush he is likely to call your pot raise (although it very depends on a player who bets and any reads on him are very helpful).
Anyway I would protect my hand by pot raise on the turn (if UTG don't have a straight flush, of course /images/graemlins/smile.gif, but in this case 90% of players would check to you). IMHO.
By the way, what did he have?

[Rolf Slotboom]

Hi Tiltboy,

In your post, you don't mention the size of your and your opponent's stack - not even once. This is almost always an important consideration in how to play the hand. With relatively shallow money (say, 50xBB or so) I would say: just raise on the turn. Because this bet puts you all-in or close to it, you will probably get called by the most likely hands for the bettor (queen- or jack-high flush or, also possible, a set). With much deeper money, other considerations apply, and other plays than the ones discussed here (flatcall flop / flatcall again on turn, flatcall flop, raise turn) should probably be considered. However, this being online, with you just playing your first hand, I assume the money can't be that deep, and thus your play should be fairly simple: raise it on the turn when there is still reasonable doubt for the bettor as to whether or not you have the hand you are representing.

Rolf Slotboom
www.acespeaks.cjb.net (http://www.acespeaks.cjb.net)

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
, I assume the money can't be that deep, and thus your play should be fairly simple: raise it on the turn when there is still reasonable doubt for the bettor as to whether or not you have the hand you are representing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Smooth-call the flop, raise on the turn screams I have the nuts. There are several reasons to make your move on the turn here, but deception is NOT one of them.

[tiltboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Tiltboy,

In your post, you don't mention the size of your and your opponent's stack - not even once.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry Rolf I thought it was implied in the post. This was for a $50 max buy-in PLO game at Paradise ($.5/1 blinds) and this was my first hand so my stack was $50. In the post I mentioned my opponent had doubled his buy-in which was a round about way of saying his stack was $100.

Thanks very much for your thoughts on the hand. I'll try and respond once I've digested them.

[Beavis68]

I am not a veteran, but I hate slowplaying in Omaha. I agree that the flop call was ok, but A max re-raise on the turn is a must.

I probably would have bet the flop too.

Reasons:

1: Your opponent will put in more money when drawing - he probably wouldn't call any kind of bet on the river with just a set.

2: He may shut down after a flat call on the flop - if he is smart.

Fortunately, you were playing a moron. You ever play any of the games on UB? Juha Helpi and Devilfish play 5/10 PL sometimes. UB also had a 100x max buy-in instead of 50.

[tiltboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not a veteran, but I hate slowplaying in Omaha. I agree that the flop call was ok, but A max re-raise on the turn is a must.

I probably would have bet the flop too.

Reasons:

1: Your opponent will put in more money when drawing - he probably wouldn't call any kind of bet on the river with just a set.

2: He may shut down after a flat call on the flop - if he is smart.

Fortunately, you were playing a moron. You ever play any of the games on UB? Juha Helpi and Devilfish play 5/10 PL sometimes. UB also had a 100x max buy-in instead of 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good points, thanks. I've played limit Omaha and Omaha/8 usually 3/6 or 5/10 at UB IIRC but never PL. I'm just trying to expand my horizons by playing PLO and I only picked Paradise because they have several games running and because I'm trying to clear a deposit bonus there.

[paland]

I have always liked Paradise's Omaha 8/b tourneys. They have a mix of good and bad players. Once the tourneys get down to the last 20, the games get tough. I also like UB's Omaha 8/b tourneys. Both are good if you like Omaha.