Interesting 15-30 hand.

10 handed. Our hero is UTG with 10h-8h. He open raises (this play is an aberration as I have played quite a bit with him and its the first one of these raises I have seen him make). Three players call cold including the button who is weak-tight. BB also calls. 5 players. Pot = 170.


Flop is 10d - 7c - 6c. BB checks. Hero bets. First cold caller (who is relatively new to game and shown no hands so far) raises. Next player folds. Button calls. BB folds. Hero reraises. Both players call. 3 players. Pot = 305.


Turn is 10s. Hero bets. First cold caller raises. Button folds. Hero calls. 2 players. Pot = 425.


River is Qc. Hero checks. Opponent bets. Hero calls.


Our Hero is an excellent player IMHO and beats this game like a red-headed stepchild. I would like comments on his play in this hand.


The showdown and comments made after the hand were what made the hand interesting to me. I will post results later this evening.


Thanks, Gomez

Gomez,


Looks to me like hero picked a bad time to get creative, it's hard to see how he's gonna get more than half of this pot(and that would be lucky). Even if the cold-caller raised the flop on a flush draw and tried to represent trips on the turn, he got there on the river. Hero is beaten by a flopped straight, flopped set, or good ten. Hero can only beat slow-played aces or kings (which would probably slow down a little when the ten pairs--not speed up), jacks (which are also unlikely at this point) or very strongly played 9's, 8's or some other pure bluff.

When I was first learning to play and spent many waking hours going over how I might play different hands in different situations, sometimes I would come up with a situation that baffled me, until I realized that "oh yeah, I'm not going to get into this situation if I'm playing well," this hand would fall into this category. I'm not sayin' that I never make a funky raise like this, but there are better hands and positions to make "loose raises" with. Just the same, if I do somehow get in this spot I probably play it exactly the same way--very crying call on the end, and if I'm beat, I can only blame myself for getting in this spot. My games don't really require this kind of advertising. As Sklansky says, don't need to get too fancy, solid play usually gets the money.

BTW, I once 3-bet a very solid player (good friend actually) with JJ, he was UTG. Flop: J-7-7 he checked and called--turn: 7, he check-raised, I called(put him on aces) river: blank; I cryingly called his fifth bet ( I wouldn't make it four bets against this player again in this spot he had enough respect for me to slow down w/ aces, I was just too dead-set that he had aces); he had 7-6s--yeah, he made alot of money off ME /images/frown.gif but he had to get incredibly lucky to do it, would have otherwise gotten smoked and the only effect it has on me is to not give him so much action if a similar hand comes up again. Doesn't mean I've gotta look to give him credit for some goofy hand every time he raises or try to overplay weaker hands against him.


Mike

I don't like his raise preflop. I don't like his raise on the flop. I like his bet and call on the turn. And I like his crying call on the end.

I'm inclined to 3-bet flop--raiser could have AK(lot of people play this hand like this-no I don't) or flush draw, I say make'em pay for it now, worry about scare cards later( I realize this may be a little "speedy" of me). Now I GOTTA go to sleep.

I think our hereo played it bad starting at the flop, on the flop he has a couple of outs 9's to a gut shot he has no flush potential, and RERAISES the flop , the only thing I could see raiseing on the flop is my cards up and over the flop to the muck I count our hero putting in $195 waisted on this hand, he some how did get a miricle 10 on the turn it cost him that much more sense I feel he was behind sense his preflop raise,, I would say that 89S probly took it down,, or A10s J.a.M

Preflop: Nothing wrong with this raise, so long as hero does it rarely. I bet he makes this kind of raise slightly more often than you think, he just doesn't get to show them down much because they don't win as often as his premium raising hands. I should know, I make this kind of raise maybe 2-3 times in a 8 hour session, and the other players think I never do it because I rarely make it to a showdown -- usually I won with a bet on the flop or turn, or I folded there.


Flop: I don't see anything wrong with hero's play here either. The reraise sets up a good chance to win the pot with a bet on the turn or river if noone manages to improve, since everyone should now put him on an overpair. The reraise gives him a much better chance to make someone else fold a better T, especially if an overcard hits that noone likes (effectively increasing his outs).


Turn: Once again, I like hero's play. Since hero is representing an overpair, players with any kind of a hand are much more likely to raise him when the T pairs, thinking this is a big scare card for him and he may lay down his overpair. There is certainly a good possibility hero is beat, but given that most players will misread him for a weaker hand (overpair) their raising standards are also going to be lower than normal when a scare card appears on the turn. The possibility hero is against another T should also be less than usual, since these players (except BB) called his preflop reraise cold. Reraising is clearly a bad move, since hero doesn't want to scare off a weaker hand or a bluff, and also doesn't want to lose more money if he is against a better hand, so calling down is his best option.


River: Oh well, hero has to make the crying call given the 15:1 odds. Note that if opponent was making a move on the turn, the flush card should make him more likely to continue his bluff, even if it didn't hit him. He still probably thinks hero holds an overpair, and might lay it down after the flush gets there. Regardless of the outcome, I think hero plays the whole hand well, and won't have to make these deceptive raises for some time to come if he is lucky enough to show down a winner.


I think this hand points out how these deceptive preflop raises can sometimes make your play more difficult -- usually when you make a medium strong hand on a scary board that your opponents will be unlikely to put you on. When this happens, their standards for raising you are going to be lower, since they will usually think you haven't improved. Since everyone is probably misreading your hand, you have to do more thinking about what they think you have than usual.

The only quarrel I have with hero's play is his reraises on the flop. He has a pair of tens with an inside striaght draw out of position to a raiser and a cold-caller. The most likely scenario is he's facing another ten and a flush draw. It could even be worse than this. Lots of cards on the turn would be ugly.


Hard to imagine hero winning this hand, but I guess he's not named Hero for nothing.


". . .beats this game like a red-headed stepchild."


Hope the PC police aren't lurking. :-)

The bettor turned over two red jacks. As our hero is raking in the chips the button announces he layed down Ac-Kc which would have won the hand with a flush. I didn't describe this guy as weak-tight for nothing. His fold was extremely poor as a call is correct even if he is drawing dead as much as 50% of the time. He should put our hero on an overpair and the raiser on a strong 10.


Like some other posters I didn't like the hero's reraise on the flop. He definitely had me fooled as I put him on Aces or Kings before he showed his hand. This betting sequence seems to be the only way he can win this pot. I think a call on the flop and a bet on the turn may not prompt a raise from the player behind and if it does the button may call here anyway. The raiser obviously overplayed his hand allowing our hero to emerge smelling like a rose. I was in semi shock at the showdown and admit to a small twinge of jealousy as gifts like this never seem to get thrown my way. I guess this is his reward for his occassional use of deceptive aggression.


I still can't agree with his raise before the flop. It will not get him any additional action from me in the future and as usual half of the table was probably asleep during the hand and didn't notice his play.


Thanks for the comments, Gomez