AA on Button

20-40 HE game last night at the Isle of Carpi. We are playing 7 handed and I am on the button with AA. All fold to a player one off the cutoff who raises. Next player folds and I smooth call with AA. I do this for two reasons. First I want the element of suprise and second the big blind will NOT fold his blind regardless so I know I cannot get it heads up.


The flop comes Q 7 4 rainbow. The preflop raiser bets and I raise. Big blind calls and preflop raiser reraises. I call big blind calls. Should I have reraised here?


The turn brings a 9 still rainbow. Big Blind checks. Preflop raise bets and we both call. The river is a 4 and blind checks, preflop raiser bets and we both call. Raiser has KK and I have AA and take down the pot. Dont know what the big blind had.


Did I play this too passively?


IowaMatt

I would three BTF. Might as well get as much money in as possible esp. if the big blind will almost always call. In a

heads up situation smooth calling can add a lot in deception,

but with the button in a short handed pot I would pound. Notice

how it might have gotten capped BTF if KK comes back over you.

On the flop if you slow down and do not cap it on the turn when

KK bets I would almost always raise in this spot. You almost always have the best hand in this spot and in this situation

you already have a very big pot and I want the big blind out who

can have just about anything. I thing it is incorrect to assume

that your opponent has flopped a set of Queen's and I am going to

pound the pot until I am shown the wrongs of my way.


Bruce

"I smooth call with AA."


Yeesh.


"I do this for two reasons. First I want the element of suprise..."


So far you've spotted the field one small bet each. Do you really think that if you played this scenerio a zillion times, that you'd earn MORE than one post-flop big-bet per hand because of the deception? I don't think so. They won't put you on AA, that's for sure. Bu when you make your move on the hand, they'll fear hands that are BETTER than one pair, and likely slow down.


Also, one pair ain't that good a hand. When you make your move and are beaten, you'll have a very hard time making a laydown because the "he thinks that I think that he thinks" gets really messy.


"and second the big blind will NOT fold his blind regardless so I know I cannot get it heads up."


When I first read this, I thought you were going to say that you could trap the BB for one preflop bet, but he'd fold for two bets. That he would call your reraise strikes me an excellent reason to raise, not as one to slowplay.


Tommy

Maybe smooth-calling IS a good play for you. That is, if you only reraise preflop with monster pairs. In that case, it's one of those frequency things. If you only reraise with big pairs, then my guess is that you'd be better off reraising with non big-pairs more often, and then always reraise with the big pairs.


In other words, it could be a worse play for me to slowplay the AA than it is for you, if my three-bet standards are lower. Not sure if this makes sense.


Tommy

I reraise with a very high percentage of my hands including things like AK and pairs as low as 99. Unfortunately, I was getting killed this session and I was extremely gun shy. I think my best move had I realized just how gun shy I was would have been to just go home. I didnt and made a few hands and got some of my losses back.


I agree that I misplayed that hand and would not play it that way again.

Matt,


I haven't read the other responses, but my initial take is that I really don't like the way you played the hand at all.


Preflop: smooth calling with AA is ok, but the fact that the BB will call no matter what gives you more reason to raise, not less, IMO.


Flop and turn: Failing to make it four bets on the flop only makes sense if you plan to raise the turn (which is a fine plan IMO). But you didn't raise on the turn!


River: Since you have dramatically underepresnted your hand up to this point, pull the trigger finally and get their money! But you just called. Ahh.


As you can tell, I think that you left some EV on the table.


-Dan

Let me disagree with your own disagreement.


I know you to be a very aggressive player, and particularly so from late position. I'm sure everyone else at the Isle sees you that way too. No one there would put you on AA if you didn't three bet from the button. By mixing it up with a smooth call, you rope the KK (or something lesser like AQ)into thinking he has the best hand and can squeeze maximum value out of any weak Q in the BB. The three bet before the flop could backfire, because there is nothing a KK likes less than AA, or worse, QQ behind him, and those are the logical hands KK would put someone on who three-bets them. So you lose the value of KK's misplaced aggression and the chance to squeeze the BB by three-betting.

I agree with the other responses and, in particular, Tommy's comments.


A smoothcall would be the better play if the blinds were extremely tight and you knew that they would both likely fold for just the single raise. In that case, you are only foregoing 1 small bet preflop and presumably, you could recoup that postflop.


BTW, I also think that you misplayed the turn. Given that the action is 3 way, I would have just called the 3 bet on the flop (like you did) but with the intention of lowering the boom on the turn (which I would have). If the dude has QQ, you lose. Simple. But the chances are that he doesn't because:


a. It is mathematically way more likely that he has KK or AQ

as opposed to QQ


b. Even factoring in conditional probability, it is more likely that he has AQ or KK as most players would want to checkraise you on the turn with QQ rather than 3 betting preflop.


c. The fact that the blind called 2 bets cold on the flop is some indication that he may have a Queen which makes it even more unlikely that the aggressive dude has QQ.

I don't think 3-betting a player one off the cut-off in a 7 player game gives your hand away. If your opponent will put you on AA or KK, then you aren't raising enough.


The fact that you know the BB will call your 3-bet is another reason to raise, get as much money in there as you can with the best hand. Getting it heads up shouldn't be a concern with AA.


You need to reraise the flop. Make the BB pay for any draw, and you're probably ahead of the preflop raiser. You're behind QQ (3 ways), but it's more likely that the preflop raiser has KK (6 ways) or AQ (6 ways). You'd also be behind 77 or 33, but if he'd raise with those, he could also have KQ.


You missed out on a lot of bets pre-flop and the flop. If you're going to do this, you need to make it up by getting in more big bets on the turn and river. You didn't. If you're going to slow play pre-flop, then you have to raise the turn or the river.

I am sure everyone else felt the same so I hope I am not piling on, but I think you did play too passively. I would have threebet preflop for sure.


Also, when I was reading about your flop play, when you called I though for sure you were going to raise on the turn. Then you didnt raise the turn, but the reason to not cap the flop is so that you can raise the turn. Or at least the way I would have played it is to just call the reraise on the flop and then raise the turn. Or you could just call the turn and raise the river, but you have to pop him somewhere.


pat

Bruce-


I agree with what you say, but he never siezed the element of surprise by either going for excessive action on the flop or popping the turn. So in a sense, his operation "surprise play" cost him money. You could argue that he collected overcalls from the bb, but this is slightly offset by serving up cheap cards and letting two opponents draw cheaply to crack his AA. We also don't know for sure that the bb wouldn't have paid 2 big bets on the turn, depending on what he had. I'm not saying you should never try and trap with AA, but when you make the attempt, for cryin' out loud TRAP 'em!

I agree. I played it very poorly overall. I am disappointed with myself. It was a matter of having been tagged so thoroughly that I was playing scared. Two hands earlier I had QQ and lost to JJ. It had been happening all night...nonetheless, what had happened previously was irrelevant to the play of this particular hand.

You should 3 bet preflop. The fact that the big blind will call no matter waht is even better. Don't you want to charge him the most to play?


As far as the flop on. Just calling the reraise on the flop is fine. But with the intention of raising on the turn again. Just calling the turn is weak. Not 4 betting on the flop makes it better for you to protect the hand becuase he will lead at you on the turn. His most likely hand is Q or KK. You want to get the other guy out on the turn.

i like the idea however....


ive played AA like this many times...here you can take the guy off QQ or any set. he'd wait for the turn to really bet especially with the safe flop. upon first read id figure AQ or KK. the call on flop was ok, but if yer gonna do that then ya gotta bury em in the turn and river, unless a K shows. just gotta think what he could be reraising with. maybe let him 3 bet the turn then hammer him all the way on the river. i think players who say to absolutely raise every time with AA are giving up too much. its a beautiful trap when it works, like it did here. ya gotta pick yer spots though and realize somtimes youve given players a draw who normally may not be in. thats one reason to really hammer either on flop or turn. great move for deception if used right. i think your intent was there, just not followed through. this was an ideal flop for the situation. i read where ya said you were off a little and found yerself playin passively. i think you were right to say ya shoulda quit after the hand. many good players ive seen who were tired and play passively til theyre chips slowly drain away. see it as a sign to stop, and regroup, come back later. nice little extra bonus if you can recognize those signs and know when to quit. saves tons. otherwise its like your waiting for the perfect hand, but when you get it, you wont have the chips in front to play it.


b


b

I haven't read the other responses, but I think you should have three bet the flop. You would have made more money this way. The KK guy would probably 4 bet it for you. If the big blind calls, that's even better as you get more free money from him. I think you played it too passively. You can play it aggressively here and the cutoff might not put you on a big hand. He might just think that you think he's trying to steal.