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View Full Version : Straight up...no bull - Poker or the girl?


05-08-2002, 07:52 PM
Read Andy Bellin's Poker Nation last week - fairly interesting, though mostly for it's commentary on NYC poker. He made one comment that hit me head on...Virtually every relationship he had ended because of poker.


I've been involved with a girl for 3 months. An honorable one -- (Bible School type) - who is nervous about my card playing. Bear in mind, I stay in 3-6 all the time cept. for tourneys. I never play when she wants to get together, so it's not the time...it's the cards themselves that are the issue.


I've made my decision. If it comes to the cards or the girl, I pick the girl. (and heck...we break up I can always go back to the cards) - I figure if you find a good one, well, welcome to compromise...you know? I only started playing to cure boredom anyways. Plus, I've always got Rock and Roll


What would you guys (and gals, if you're dealing with men) do or have you done in the past? And no....lying is not an option here, buddy! - Not for me anyways.


And FYI - I'm up for the year, thanks to $3000 in tourney wins...so that's not the problem yet - although I know my ring game is down for the year right now...so is my online one.


RB

05-08-2002, 08:11 PM
If it were me I would look for another girl, and i've been with mine for 5 years. If she came to me and said either you give up poker for the rest of your life, or give up me, I would show her the door.


This would be purely on principle, if she is going to stand between me and something i love to do, then there is no need for her, and it's not meant to be.


MisFit

05-08-2002, 08:16 PM
i agree with MisFit, if she is the kind of girl to forbid you what you love so much, and make you choose, then you don't need her. but if she constantly makes the 'sacrifice' but you can see that it truly bothers her deep down, well, just take a line from Moulin Rouge - (paraphrasing) "...the greatest thing in the world that you can do is to love and be loved." id drop poker in a heartbeat if it meant that the woman i loved wouldn't live another day of her life worried about me. but then again, im just a hopeless romantic...

05-09-2002, 01:37 AM
Stay with the girl, assuming that in the big ol' world, there is at least one other hobby you love doing that doesn't annoy her. Poker fills voids, it shouldn't create one.


Josh

05-09-2002, 02:15 AM
I've been with a famous poker player for almost a year and there are times when it gets tough. Alot of nights I would be home alone, but It makes him happy and I would do anything or let him do almost anything to be happy.

What I think you should do is find out exactly what it is that bothers her about you playing and try to compromise with her, if that doesn't work teach her to play. Get her hooked. Either way good luck to you I hope everything works out.

05-09-2002, 04:59 AM
I did teach her to play one time...we played 4 hands and she won 3 of the 4 - LOL - stuff like me with JJ and her with 24 and rivering a st8 - three hands like that. /images/smile.gif


I think it's the whole "could he have a gambling disorder in the future" - (oh yea...did I mention she's a psych major?) - but I've got a deeper love in my heart for music then I do for poker...if it was music and poker, I'd pick music - and music vs. girl - well, maybe music...but poker is 3rd.

05-09-2002, 12:02 PM
Is she still under breeding age and if so does she hope to? If yes, then any concerns of hers about security are culturally and genetically too strong to row against. IOW, she can't be wrong to worry.


Tommy

05-09-2002, 12:49 PM
If she's the right girl, then definitely she's more important than poker.


I'm fortunate in that I get to have both. More than both, actually, as I have two girlfriends. One is unhappy with but accepting of my play, and the other has gotten into poker in a big way. But I made it clear to each of them: "If you think it matters, I'll stop playing for your sake."

05-09-2002, 01:02 PM
If she's a psych major, you might be doing yourself a favor by talking to her about gambling disorders and such. Ask her about "operant conditioning" and B. F. Skinner.

05-09-2002, 02:07 PM
And if she is above breeding age, screw her and go play poker. She doesn't want to hang out with you anyway, she just views you as a cash machine.


I know married guys who screw hookers. If you're going to screw hookers anyway, then why not marry a guy, and at least have someone fun to hang with?


Your first responsibility is to a girl at any age. But you have to get straight what she wants from you. Once you've planted the seed, just focus on getting the water.


And remember to point out, you won't network too many new business contacts spending your Friday nights on the couch, watching "Mytic Pizza" with her.


eLROY

05-09-2002, 02:45 PM
Love is a two way street. You don't want to start down a road where you accept that she doesn't like it and quit but she does not accept that you really like it. I think she is showing a bit of insensitivity by not hearing you out about what you enjoy about poker and accepting that you are a good, strong willed guy (assuming you are :: ) who can play for fun and not because they have to. Personally, I would not be able to overcome the resentment I would feel towards someone who made me choose between something I really enjoy and them. There is certainly enough room for both in your life. Find a girl who recognizes that.


KJS

05-09-2002, 02:54 PM
There's one part of your message that reminds me of my tobacco addiction. "If we break up I can always go back to gambling...".


I think you're just delaying the innevitable. I made the same statement about smoking. I quit for a the woman of my dreams, thinking "hey if we break up... I can always smoke." Sure sign of an addiction that won't go away.


IMO, gambling is an addiction for many (myself included). I think she's spotted this in you and that's what's worrying her. It's not about the nights out, or the actual gambling. It's the addtiction. And, she's rightfully worried. Most of us can control our addictions, but there's a good possiblity that it can get out of control. Addmiting this is half the battle, and I dont' think she's heard that from you. Remember, not all addicitons are bad -- but they must be controlled or they will become bad.


The other half of the battle is why you would quit. If you do it for her, you will eventually resent her. It will get bad, and you'll break up. You will go back to gambling and maybe it will get the better of you because you're now doing it because you have too -- not by choice. You lost the love of your life, and your only alternative is to gamble. You're not clear of mind -- well you know what happens to gamblers who's minds are cluttered -- it's not a pretty sight.


Now, if you can stop because YOU want to. Well that's another story. You'll feel great. You'll get the woman. Even if she doesn't hang around, you'll still be free of gambling. You'll be much happier in the end. Found that out with smoking - still smoke free after 20 years!!


IMO, you need to fess up that it's an addtiction. And, the choice needs to be yours - not hers.

05-09-2002, 03:20 PM
Cool. Do they know about each other?

05-09-2002, 03:48 PM
I was in a similar situation a while back. I only started playing poker around last November, and of course, was terrible. I would go weekly to canterbury, drop 30 bets on 2 4 or 3 6, and go back next week. However after going the first couple times and enjoying myself I decided that it was something I wanted to do, and something that I wanted to get good at. I bought books, started playing microlimits online, and read websites. I eventually started improving to the point where I was starting to win money.


Unfortunetly after coming home WAY late one night (with a loss) my girlfriend of 4 years put her foot down. We of course had an argument about it but worked out a compromise. I now have a set budget of how much I "get" per month to spend on poker, live or online, and I don't play online while she's still awake (she goes to bed about 3 hours before me), and of course come home at a reasonable hour when I do go out to play. Ironically of course I've only needed that monthly amount the first time (I cashed out everything to start clean), and have turned it into a decent bankroll.


So essentially my advice is:


Start clean.

Keep good records.

If you don't have a working bankroll, set a limit on yourself on how much you can spend out of savings. That way she really won't care whether you won or lost, and you won't have to lie or exaggerate about it.

Make sure she knows you're more important to her than poker. Well, pretend like it, obviously. If she wants to do something with you on a day you were planning to play, play a different day.

Take a week off or two from poker to prove to her you're serious about her. Obviously take this time to review your play, reread some stuff, etc.

Win. That seems to turn her on. Spending some of the winnings on her helps too.

05-09-2002, 04:21 PM
If you're lucky enough to hook up with a good woman--not a girl--then forget about poker. If you've got someone who loves you and who you love, and who you can talk to and be with and laugh with, and cry with, and count on when things are tough and she makes you feel like you're the most wonderful person in the world, even when (that is, especially when) you know you're not, and you can tell her things you'd never tell anyone else and, more than that, she somehow knows these things even before you tell her--well, that's worth a helluva lot more than flopping top set. As far as I'm concerned, there's no contest--poker isn't even a close second.


"lying is not an option here, buddy! - Not for me anyways." Sounds like she's a lucky person too.


Good luck.

05-09-2002, 04:44 PM
its not an addiction. i strongly disagree with you here. is it an addiction to read books? is it an addiction to watch sports on television? is laughing at funny jokes an addiction? please define addiction, and show how poker players necessarily fall into that category.

05-09-2002, 04:47 PM
you hit the nail on the head andy.

05-09-2002, 04:53 PM
I acutally don't agree with a lot that I've heard.

First off- Does she do anything that you don't agree with? any hobbies?

Maybe she is feeling a little insecurity about you spending time playing poker instead of sitting home and waiting on her, she seems like she may be being a little selfish. I think you should talk to her, find out if you can make a deal, maybe you play once or twice a week and afterwards with your winnings, take her somewhere.


I think that if she sees that you can have as much fun spending time with her as you do playing poker everything should be fine.


My boyfriend and I went through almost the same thing I was in the state of mind that he would rather spend more time playing poker than with me, but I found out that it wasn't that. So to occupy my time instead of being alone at night I got a girlfriend and we've been a happy threesome since.


Now if none of the above works for you and you really think she's the one, or at least worth giving up poker for a while, then do what you think is better for you in the long run.


Oh, and another hint of advice would be- that the only person that should be with a woman who is a psych major should be a man who is a psych major. I've found that if the relationship is un-equal in the "uncovering emotions" part. The "educated" one usually ends up telling the other how they should feel, not how they do feel.

So good luck to you!

05-09-2002, 05:20 PM
1

a)Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.

b) An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.


2

a) The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

b) An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.


I think for most gambling falls into 2, coupled perhaps with 1 -- drinking or smoking! Like I said an addiction is not a bad thing. Are you compulsively reading books? I know my wife does -- she's addicted to books -- it's not a bad thing (other than the $200 per month we spend on paperbacks). Have you ever thought, "gee, I should stop playing right about now....go home and have dinner with my (blank)...but I'm hot I can't leave now". Sounds like compulsive behaviour to me. For most of us we can control it, for the most part. Others in this post have some sound advice on how to control the beast.


Problem happens when the addiction takes over. IT becomes the most important thing in your life and you sacrfice all else. I think that's what the woman is worried about -- being a psych. major I think she understands the potential problem and is concerned.

05-09-2002, 05:21 PM

05-09-2002, 05:27 PM
Here's the definition:


1

a)Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.

b) An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.


2

a) The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

b) An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.


I think for most gambling falls into 2, coupled perhaps with 1 -- drinking or smoking! Like I said an addiction is not a bad thing. Are you compulsively reading books? I know my wife does -- she's addicted to books -- it's not a bad thing (other than the $200 per month we spend on paperbacks). Have you ever thought, "gee, I should stop playing right about now....go home and have dinner with my (blank)...but I'm hot I can't leave now". Sounds like compulsive behaviour to me. For most of us we can control it, for the most part. Others in this post have some sound advice on how to control the beast.


Problem happens when the addiction takes over. IT becomes the most important thing in your life and you sacrfice all else. I think that's what the woman is worried about -- being a psych. major I think she understands the potential problem and is concerned.

05-09-2002, 08:08 PM

05-09-2002, 08:35 PM

05-09-2002, 08:52 PM
Well said Andy.


Whiskeytown, which one of these situations sounds worse to you:


Playing at a poker table, lonely, wishing you were still dating this girlfriend,


or


Being with your girlfriend, thinking longingly about the next time you get to play poker


This may not describe your two options exactly, but it's just an example of how to look at it. Imagine yourself after choosing (a) the girl and then picture yourself after choosing (b) the game -- figure out which one of those is the more desirable future.

QT

05-09-2002, 09:36 PM

05-09-2002, 10:51 PM
no doubt whatsoever...I'm often sitting at the table thinking of her. When I'm with her, I'm not thinking of cards at all. - Choice A -


If push comes to shove, I'll make that decision. I think she understands enough about what I do so that she doesn't see it as a problem - we're both fairly young, and yes, she is thinking in part about a future together...so one has to account for that.


Interesting point she made, she felt it would make her more comfortable if it were a game at someone's house then at a professional card room. Truth is, I'd probably be at a higher risk in a home game /images/smile.gif - I have no clue how to spot a cheater /images/smile.gif


RB

05-10-2002, 12:15 AM
Let me tell you my story. When I first met my wife (almost 30 years ago now) I was playing pot limit stud in London. Once we had decided to get married I told her that I'd give up "all that stuff" and focus on my career and family. Hell we even moved from London to Fresno (her home town). Fortunately we didn't stay in Fresno too long, but now it's almost 30 years later and I have a successfuly business, almost own my home and our son has finished college and is gainfully employed.


Life is Good.


And you know what? during the past 28 years I never missed "all that stuff", course now I play (have been for the past couple of years) poker and enjoy it, however if I had to do it again I'd make the same decision in a heartbeat.


Good Luck Whiskeytown.

05-10-2002, 12:25 AM

05-10-2002, 04:02 AM
i guess the word has connotations of being a 'problem' and that is what i disagree with. sure, some of us have the 'habit of 'compulsively' playing poker. and no, perhaps it doesn't have to be. but labeling it that opens the door for people to call it a problem. from there it is a slippery slope. i think that it doesn't help whiskeytown in his case to define his habit as an addiction. and yes, i have thought to get up and leave in the middle of a 'hot streak' and go have dinner/see a show/play a game/read a book somewhere else. and i do it. but i don't play as much as some on here. i play when my wallet can handle the swings, and when i have time.

05-10-2002, 04:08 AM
take the girl. nobody writes FAMOUS songs about poker. (i know you're working on the fame tommy) but the point is, rock and roll is about girls and love. actually, there is no real point. just go for the girl. everything else will pale in comparison. in time, she will be ok with the card playing thing. don't push her on it. just do stuff with her, and make sure she knows you love her. then, once in a while, go to the cardroom. or maybe the 2 of you can start a home game together. it will be fun, especially if you can get some friends in on it.

05-10-2002, 11:13 AM
You hit the nail on the head. Most people think an addition = problem. And they also think it's ALLWAYS in the driver's seat. This is so NOT true.


I would expect most posters don't have a problem. We all have sane, maybe strange but sane, ways of ensuring it doesn't get the best of us.


I think that's what the girl/woman wants to hear/see. Now if Whiskey admits to the "addiction" and shows he's got it under control -- I really mean show -- then it's a trust issue. And, if she doesn't trust Whiskey well you make the connection.


If he gives up gambling just for her, eventually he wil resent her because the trust thing will creep up in other areas. Now if Whiskey gives up gambling for himself, then it's a clean slate. He's happy because it's for him. This will not strain the relationship. But the relationship still needs to be cared for -- doing one thing, albeit a big one, does not make for a reletionship.

05-10-2002, 12:03 PM
If you have to ask the question, she's probably not "the one". If she is, you shouldn't have any doubt about what the right choice is.

05-10-2002, 02:09 PM
Sounds like you already have made up your mind, then!


If she played poker, she'd understand that not only are home games usually more "gambling" than casino games, but also as you say, a home game can be corrupt. In addition to cheating potential, there is also the matter of physical safety. The last thing you need is a drunk tilted player coming across the table at you to reclaim "his" money. I've had this situation both in casinos and in home games, and as a female, let me tell you that is scary. I certainly prefer to have casino security handling the situation, I can tell you that.


With patience and calm fact-based explanations, I expect she could come around to appreciating poker as a hobby for you. Try to classify it for her as being a game in the same category as chess, or bridge. Don't forget equally to talk scornfully of games such as keno, slots, and roulette, even blackjack. /images/biggrin.gif Good luck!


QT

05-10-2002, 05:38 PM
None of ya got it right yet. When ya get home just give her a $100 bill. Then see how she likes ya playin.

05-10-2002, 08:13 PM

05-10-2002, 08:52 PM
Whiskey- Ok...I've read all the "right responses" to your post. Here is the bottom line as Babe sees it. I take it that poker is not your "career" and that you are of a young enough age that you either: a) have another "job" which pays your expenses or b) could have (and could "choose" to have) another "job" (if you don't already) which might satisfy your income needs. This to me is the first and primary issue. If you do not make your income from poker, it's only a "hobby" like golf or whatever, eh? So..ok, since it's a hobby, you could give it up without any financical ramifications and live happily ever after with the girl. HOWEVER, if your income is derived from poker and solely from poker, and if you choose not to lose the girl, then you have no choice but to keep the girl and: 1) go broke (I'm sure she would like that), 2) keep the girl and find other "income" (perhaps bank robbery?), or 3) keep the girl and try to explain that poker (like being in the Marines) is not an "adventure" - it's a job!. Oh..there is one other option- find another girl. It is my experience that people do not change their "fundamental" beliefs and values, especially when religious, motivational and life style preferences are concerned. I know three poker players (pros) who are involved with significant others that devalue the poker playing "lifestyle". In three of three cases, the relationships are in trouble. Bottom line- "no bull": If you can give up poker without any financial or psychological repercussions, and you feel this is your only "out" (to keep the girl) , then good luck and go for it. If you cannot do this without feeling resentment and if you will be unfulfilled in your (new or other) work, then, again, good luck (because your relationship doesn't have a very good chance for success). Take care...Babe

05-10-2002, 09:58 PM
Whiskeytown, I think your relationship with this lady is doomed. I know of several where one partner is against the other one playing poker(and these are winning players). I know of none that actually work. I think your only choice would be to give up poker, and you would probably come to resent that. Even if it worked okay now what about when you want to move up to 6-12 or 10-20 where its possible to lose a considerable amount of $$ at one sitting?

05-13-2002, 02:02 PM
I would not give up poker. I have great fun in playing poker, thinking about poker, talking about poker etc etc. If this all doesnt interfere with her life, other than the fact that she got "principle problems" with it, then no way I would give up poker, because the arguments for giving it up are simply not there IMO. I wouldnt ask her to give up her religion either, although I have principle problems with it.


Regards