WSOP 2003 on ESPN.....again (a rant)

[nolanfan34]

So ESPN is promoting their 2004 coverage by showing "24-hours of poker" (with breaks for Sportscenter, of course).

But they're showing the fricken' 2003 series again over and over, with a bit of the US championship too.

My question is, doesn't ESPN still own the rights to the 2002, 2001, and other past WSOP's? I remember Scotty Ngyuen's 1998 win being shown on ESPN - my first exposure to Hold 'em.

You would think, after the success of poker on TV this past year, that any ESPN exec worth a damn would have thought about them re-packaging these old championships into brand new shows. How hard would it be to create these into new episodes kind of like the old "NBA's greatest games" hosted by Dan Patrick, with in studio interviews from the main players, talking about their thought processes during the tournament.

Anyway, I'm just tired of seeing Hellmuth, Moneymaker, Farha, etc, at this point. Show some new (old) footage ESPN!!

[Kevmath]

The Discovery Channel did the World Series for at least 1999 and 2001. ESPN Classic can do a "Cheap Seats" show for the 1994 WSOP, but they can't do a marathon of the other shows they have, like maybe early July? Last year, ESPN did air the '97 and '98 WSOP's along with some older US Championships. Why they can't do that on Classic, I guess we'll never know.

Kevin...

[Dynasty]

Without the special cameras to show the hole cards, those old shows don't make for nearly as good television.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Without the special cameras to show the hole cards, those old shows don't make for nearly as good television.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but it is still better than seeing Best Bluffs or whatever for the 20th time in the past three months.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Without the special cameras to show the hole cards, those old shows don't make for nearly as good television.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but it is still better than seeing Best Bluffs or whatever for the 20th time in the past three months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe to *you*, but I don't think the ratings agree.
I enjoy watching the old series that don't show the hole cards, but most people would rather watch paint dry.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoy watching the old series that don't show the hole cards, but most people would rather watch paint dry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why they should repackage and re-edit the old series. Have some sort of a studio portion, or even commentary from the champ from that year. And they could go back and redo the graphics, using the hole card graphics and win percentages, etc. Yes, only shown hands you'd be able to do this for, but it wouldn't really be that hard.

I have a hard time believing that ratings for that would be much lower than what they will be today for the 1000th airing of the 2003 WSOP. Well, besides the Dutch Boyd chip trick segment, which I'm sure gets huge ratings.

[Sundevils21]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I enjoy watching the old series that don't show the hole cards, but most people would rather watch paint dry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why they should repackage and re-edit the old series. Have some sort of a studio portion, or even commentary from the champ from that year. And they could go back and redo the graphics, using the hole card graphics and win percentages, etc. Yes, only shown hands you'd be able to do this for, but it wouldn't really be that hard.

I have a hard time believing that ratings for that would be much lower than what they will be today for the 1000th airing of the 2003 WSOP. Well, besides the Dutch Boyd chip trick segment, which I'm sure gets huge ratings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. IF, they did that. Since they haven't done that though, I think the 1000th airing would do better.
I have a question about the movie "Rounders". Remember when that brunette was over at Mike's house and he was watching some old WSOP('89 I think it was)? They were showing in the bottom corner, each of the players hands. Did they only do it for this, the final hand? Or did they go back and edit in the showdowns that they knew? Also, now that I think about it, a lot of showdowns only one player shows the cards, and the other player(s) muck. That would further reduce the number of hands that could be shown. Before anybody starts with the, "they could have the some of the pro's tell everybody what they had" idea, let me say NO. Some pro's would tell everybody what they want everybody to think instead of the truth. Okay my rant is over.

[nolanfan34]

I agree that no pro is going to go back and tell what they had years later, although I wouldn't doubt that most of those guys probably remember some of those situations exactly (I can barely remember what I ate for breakfast).

I guess the point of my post is that I'd like to see them just show those old ones again, period. I don't have TIVO, so I can't record anything poker automatically.

Heck, I actually enjoy watching billiards when they show it, but if they can drag out some women's 9-ball championship from 2000 and air it, they should certainly be able to show more of the old poker.

[Joboo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question about the movie "Rounders". Remember when that brunette was over at Mike's house and he was watching some old WSOP('89 I think it was)? They were showing in the bottom corner, each of the players hands. Did they only do it for this, the final hand? Or did they go back and edit in the showdowns that they knew? Also, now that I think about it, a lot of showdowns only one player shows the cards, and the other player(s) muck. That would further reduce the number of hands that could be shown. Before anybody starts with the, "they could have the some of the pro's tell everybody what they had" idea, let me say NO. Some pro's would tell everybody what they want everybody to think instead of the truth. Okay my rant is over.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was the '88 World Series, and you are correct, they only showed the hole cards for the final hand, since both players flipped over their cards.

[Bubbagump]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember Scotty Ngyuen's 1998 win being shown on ESPN - my first exposure to Hold 'em.


[/ QUOTE ]

My first exposure also! I will never forget, I saw this on ESPN from my hotel room at Harrah's in Vegas. It was my first trip to vegas. I also remember walking by the Mirage poker room on this trip and being intrigued and intimidated at the same time watching players with racks & racks of $5 chips layed out in front of them. Good times.....

Bubbagump

[MicroBob]

the footage from some of the previous WS was truly awful.

they showed a bunch of them last year in Oct or Nov or so.

they had the WPO in Tunica which was basically Humberto Brenes sitting there singing to his walkman tunes the whole time.
incredibly annoying.

the WS of a couple years ago had Gable Kaplan and Phil Hellmuth providing the commentary. Kaplan did okay....Hellmuth was incredibly out of his element. the whole thing looked more like a college-student television production.


re-editing some of it would be a total pain in the ass for ESPN and after getting rid of the awful Hellmuth stand-ups and other stuff they wouldn't be left with much actual footage anyway.

i'm sure they don't have the original footage lying around anymore.
i think re-editing is an unrealistic option.


the 2004 coverage was well-done, and is already well-packaged and it's obviously cheaper just to show those over and over again.
although i do think a bit odd as well the number of times that they have showed it.

this may be reflective of the ratings they have received on these WSOP episodes.
if all of their viewers complained and the ratings were terrible for the WSOP then they probably wouldn't be showing it so freaking much.



thoughts on the ESPN poker-marathon - i know that most of us are seeing these hands and episodes for about the zillionth time.

but think of the overall implications of this and compare it to where poker was just a couple of years ago.


the nation's premier sports channel is showing 24-hours of continuous poker-coverage. this is truly unbelieveable imo.

let me repeat.....this is 24-hours of NON-STOP poker. and it's not just some dinky little start-up cable station....this is ESPN!!

a couple years ago, NOBODY would have thought this would be possible.

and coming up they will have coverage of Omaha and Razz tournaments (and other games that i may or may not actually know how to play).


poker coverage on TV was minimal at best just a couple of years previous.

now we have come to a point where we are complaining that the 24-continuous-hours of poker on the world's largest and most significant sports network just doesn't have enough variety for our liking.


for all i care...ESPN can show the exact same Hellmuth vs. Grizzle or Moneymaker vs. Brenes hand 9,000 times in a single day.
it's great exposure and terrific for the game.


and the fact that they are doing this with an overall idea of promoting and previewing their 2004 WSOP coverage makes it even better.

[Sadat X]

With the old WSOPs it's not like you are sitting and watching in the gallery. The hole cards are actually shown, the problem is that you know there's going to be a showdown, because thats the only way the cameras can know the hole cards.

I, personally, like the old poker coverage and remember watching it whenever it came on. I totally agree with Nolan that they should just repackage the old WSOPs. Its worth it just to see Scotty Ngyen's mullet.

[Sloats]

eoe says so, but my local cable company says part 5 of 7 of 2003.....

[thirddan]

i think 2004 starts at the beginning of july...

[Doc JS]

Two words... Don't Watch


Doc JS

[TimTimSalabim]

[ QUOTE ]
i think 2004 starts at the beginning of july...

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it already started, on January 1.

(I know what you meant, just couldn't resist. /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

[thirddan]

zing...ouch /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[jacki]

[ QUOTE ]
the WS of a couple years ago had Gable Kaplan and Phil Hellmuth providing the commentary. Kaplan did okay....Hellmuth was incredibly out of his element. the whole thing looked more like a college-student television production.


[/ QUOTE ]

Was that when Varkonyi (sp?) wouldn't shave Hellmuth's head after he won?

[MicroBob]

no.
lon mcecheran did the 2002 WSOP

the 2001 WSPOP coverage with kaplan and Hellmuth was awful.

[jwvdcw]

the nation's premier sports channel is showing 24-hours of continuous poker-coverage. this is truly unbelieveable imo.

let me repeat.....this is 24-hours of NON-STOP poker. and it's not just some dinky little start-up cable station....this is ESPN!!



GREAT POINT HERE

[jwvdcw]

I agree that something new would be refreshing, but as others have said, poker without hole cards exposed is boring and won't get ratings, which is all that really matters.