Waiting until the turn to raise?

[southerndog]

Why is slowplaying and waiting until the turn to raise such a mortal sin around here? Why not get two bets out of your opponents when the bets are big rather than when the bets are small on the flop? I understand you want to get your money in when you have the best hand, but if chances are you will still have the best hand on the turn, why not wait then?

[astroglide]

evidence of a specific hand/thread were people advocated a raise on the flop when you felt waiting was best would help foster discussion...

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]


Why is slowplaying and waiting until the turn to raise such a mortal sin around here? Why not get two bets out of your opponents when the bets are big rather than when the bets are small on the flop? I understand you want to get your money in when you have the best hand, but if chances are you will still have the best hand on the turn, why not wait then?

[/ QUOTE ]

because a lot of players (esp at Micro-limit, where I play) will call any bet on the flop, but fold on the turn if they don't hit anything or have a draw. Others will bet anything on the flop, but turn into calling stations on the turn (whether you raise the flop or not). Which of these scenarios do you like more?

1)
flop: Opp bets, you call
turn: Opp checks, you bet, Opp folds

2)
flop: Opp bets, you call
turn: Opp checks, you bet, Opp calls
river: Opp checks, you bet Opp calls

3)
flop: Opp bets, you raise, Opp calls
turn: Opp checks, you bet, Opp calls
river: Opp checks, you bet, Opp calls

In my experience (maybe I should say "in my inexperience") these are the three most common outcomes...

Also, if you think you have opponents staying in with draws, you want to get money in the pot ASAP because they may fold if they don't hit on the turn.

[Schneids]

I don't remember anyone around here specifically arguing this as well... However, I'll provide one situation where it's better to go wild on the flop:

One time, Gonores raised from the button and I defended from my BB. I flopped top pair, and check raised Gonores. He three-bet with his overpair. His 3-bet kept me calling down the rest of the way. Had he called my check raise then waited to raise me on the turn, I'd have folded to his raise. So, by 3-betting, Gonores ended up earning himself more $$. Against some opponents who tend to not believe flop action and give a lot of flop action themselves, it might be best to go wild on the flop, while also opening yourself the opportunity to get multiple bets on both the flop and turn.

[astroglide]

i'll offer an example that's common of higher limit games: player openraises AK, big blind defends. big blind leads ragged flop with top pair, AK raises, big blind threebets. big blind bets the turn and river, and gets called down by ace high. if he had checkraised the turn, AK would be much more likely to fold.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

It's not ALWAYS a mortal sin, just most of the time. Typically you'll win a BIGGER POT by jamming the flop than you will by raising the turn.

I love it when i see someone check-call the flop. Then some moron bets the turn again, they raise, and everyone correctly folds, thus they won the itty-bitty-est pot they possibly could with their set (typical of this kind of scenario). The same person usually would have won a bigger pot, and possibly tied people on to the end, had they just raised the damn flop in the first place.

I have advocated for years that in a loose game, you should BET your set and hope to get raised, thus allowing you to three-bet. This will usually win you a bigger pot than a turn raise or check-raise. With such a big hand, you WANT to get PAID OFF.

There are times when a turn raise or check-raise is better. These situations are more likely to occur in tighter games, or when it's short handed and your opponents are very aggressive.

Learning to differentiate the times to jam the flop, and the times to raise the turn, is one aspect of winning play everyone must master. Of course we don't always get it right, nor do we always play every hand the best way every time. But with experience, we get it perfect more and more often.

al

[Doctaprofit]

what if u flop the nut.. ie an ace high flush or the nut straight.. and ur in LP first to act bets.. everyone calls do u wait to reraise on the turn or would be best to reraise here..

[bernie]

Because many only think of strict ABC, bet when you have it, instead of other tactical plays. Way overfearing a free card with a 'must charge' way of thinking.

I have a thread going in Mid Stakes with a hand i waited to the turn with. Might be worth checking out.

Playing both ways have their pros and cons.

b

[Spyder]

What about check-raising the flop?

What about calling the flop and check-raising the turn?

What about when there are multiple players in the pot? To me, it is best then to slow play the flop to get all the extra money in, then raise on the turn to claim it.

Spyder