"Nutty" hand

Here's a hand I played that I am a little perplexed about. I am curious what others think.


I am 2 off button with AdJc. A mediocre player limps in first in late middle position. I raise. The cutoff, a very aggressive player, 3 bets. The BB, a solid player (but not a star) calls cold, and the limper calls. I call also.


The flop is a gem: Ah, Ac, 9s.

Check, check, I check, 3 bettor bets. BB calls, limper folds I call.


turn is 3s. BB checks, I bet. 3 bettor raises. BB calls cold. I call.


River is Jd. BB checks, I check.


Comments appreciated, results to follow. Thanks in advance.


Dan Z.

Dan,


Yep, pretty nutty. I would almost certainly bet(not minding a raise)or checkraise the flop to get a better feel about where I'm at. With the BB calling two bets on the turn he may have the other ace(quite possibly a better one than yours) looking to checraise the turn and then deciding against it. That leaves the 3-bettor with a probable nines-full. If, however, the 3-bettor has the other ace it may be suited(spades) and he may be planning to check the river if he doesn't improve; for this reason I would bet the river--if the three bettor has the suited ace what the hell does the BB have? The first scenario seems more likely and in this case going for the checkraise could net you upto four more bets which would be pretty sweet but not getting any bets on the river would be almost tragic. Was this game online, if so it makes it much harder to get a feel for whether the 3-bettor will bet the river for you. I'd probably bet, you might even get raised again, but it wouldn't be by me. Looking forward to the results.


Mike

All I was thinking about when I saw the flop is how to win the most with the best hand and lose the least with the worst hand. Without making a move on the flop -- either betting out or check-raising, doesn't much matter which -- I'm lost, and the rest of the hand would turn into messy guessing for me, with no line feeling particularly better than any other.


Tommy

Here's what's nutty -


The button, the loose aggressive 3 bettor, had T9 off.

The BB has Kings.


It seemed clear that the BB would respect my action a lot more than the 3 bettor's, so I was trying to play the hand in a way that would prevent someone from easily concluding that I have an ace.


I got very lucky on the turn. The BB was fooled by my move, and the button got me 4 bets instead of 2 by raising. I thought 3 betting would have ended the hand unless I was beat, and I could have been beat.


On the river, I did not think the button could call my bet - though he would raise again with any ace or any full house. So I thought I was risking a likely call from the BB for 1-4 bets.

I think I got a little greedy here, but at the same tiem I don't know if my bet gets called at all. The river was a real tough one for me.


Sadly, the button checked the river.


Tommy mentioned that he would show strength on the flop to find out where he was at, etc.. But I have 2 big concerns with this -

1) what good does this do you? Can you fold your ace?

2) are you not giving opponents a lot more useful info thatn you are getting? Can they not fold hands without an ace pretty easily to 2 shows of strength?


thanks for the responses.


Dan Z.

Dan,


Wow, I would have almost been willing to bet money that the button had 9-9 and the BB had an ace(what kind of a parlay do you think I could have gotten?). Don't worry about missing any possible bets on the river and rejoice in the fact that you got a stupid amount of action on this hand.


Mike

"Tommy mentioned that he would show strength on the flop to find out where he was at, etc.. But I have 2 big concerns with this -

1) what good does this do you? Can you fold your ace?"


Yes.


"2) are you not giving opponents a lot more useful info than you are getting?"


I don't think so. With a big three-bet pot brewing, a bet out on the flop won't convince the big pairs that they are beaten. And if they all fold, great. I'd rather take it right there than give all the pocket pairs a draw. If no one has an ace, then it generally means there are two pocket pairs out. That's four outs, collectively. I wouldn't want to give a gutshot a free card either, and I'd be glad if the a gutshot folded to one bet. Same thing here, sorta.


"Can they not fold hands without an ace pretty easily to 2 shows of strength?"


Maybe, maybe not. The second show of stregth (presuming I bet out on the flop and no one raises) won't come til the turn, and by then, KK or QQ might decided to payoff for one bet on each street.


Tommy