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View Full Version : Flop raising for free card with draw or overcards (Beginner Tutorial)


RED_RAIN
06-06-2004, 02:44 PM
I have come to conclusion that I think maybe some of the beginners (I am no expert) could benefit from.

You hear a lot that you should raise for a free card when you have the ace high flush draw or straight draw on the flop. This not always true.

Let's look at some situations.
Let's consider no preflop raise.

We will put ourselves on the button.
If it's checked around to the CO who bets, say there are two or three others between you and the CO, this is a spot where it would be wrong for you to raise for your flush draw. If you raise you will be paying 1 BB to possibly get heads up with the CO. If you just call and if even one person inbetween calls the CO's bet, yes you may pay 1.5 BBs on the flop and turn but when you hit your flush you will make more overall.

Now when would we raise for a free card?

Let's say we are back on the button. The SB or BB bets, we get 2-3 callers before you, this is the time to raise, we are pretty sure no one will fold here and would love to see the turn and river for free.
Another situation is where we have position and there was a raise preflop (by us), we hold over cards of AKo or AQs (you choose something), we miss the flop totally, there are only 2 other people in the hand, we flop a flush draw with over cards too, no matter who bets in front of us, we want to raise for our free card, then look at dumping if we are just looking at overcards on the flop on the turn.

I just all to often hear no matter what go for your free card when I think sometimes it's better to call to make more money overall.

I think my logic is sound but perhaps I can be shown it's wrong.

Chiefs Fan
06-06-2004, 03:55 PM
I agree it is important to be selective when you're using this tactic, some people don't use it enough and some use it too often.

My favorite time to do this is when I've got the button, there are 4-5 limpers PF and I call with A5s. flop comes with either an A or a 5 and 2 of my suit. someone in EP bets and there are 2 callers to me. I love to make this play here.

Kurn, son of Mogh
06-06-2004, 04:46 PM
I suggest you do a search on an old post by Clarkmeister entitled something like "5 things low limit players need to unlearn."

RED_RAIN
06-06-2004, 05:05 PM
Did some searching and couldn't find. Can you post a link?

StableHand
06-07-2004, 02:06 PM
I'm pretty much learning the game, but i play like you suggest most of the time. Another type of situation is when i find myself UTG HU on the flop, and I've missed my A - good kicker, but with the flush draw, I occasionally 3-bet it, for deceptive purposes, and it often gives the free card.

Avery
06-07-2004, 03:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Did some searching and couldn't find. Can you post a link?

[/ QUOTE ]

Try this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=321233&page=&v iew=&sb=5&o=&fpart=) .

RED_RAIN
06-07-2004, 07:19 PM
Maybe I'm not seeing it but I don't see a lot different from what I posted and what clark did? Can someone point out the differences? I just didn't know he had posted this before. He's been around a lot longer than me.

His point that you will often get 3 bet or get bet into on the turn I'm not so sure I agree at the .5/1 and 1/2 level.

I almost always get my free card when raising for a free card. Much much more than not.
I also almost never get bet into on the turn unless they have 2 pair or better or a very aggressive player with top pair great kicker who thinks I'm trying to get a free card.

Perhaps the tables have changed since 2 years ago, I know I've heard that 1/2 and 2/4 have gotten a bit tighter and passive over the last 8 months alone.