Is Online poker for real?

[tyfromm]

OK - let me just say first off that I'm no big believer in the 'consipiracy theory' that online gambling sites are out to cheat their players. Nor am I saying this just because I've taken one hellacious beating the last several days playing online - it's been atrocious and I won't go into details. After some review, it's apparent there has been some bad play on my part - I certainly don't deny that. But some of the stuff I've seen online has really got me thinking that if you decide to play online you truly are gambling - in every sense of the word.

Now, I've been a student of poker long enough to know that a bad run of cards is bound to catch up with you - and you'll never see it coming nor will you know how long it will last. I play poker voluntarly, and that I can accept. To be honest with you I wouldn't mind all that much sitting there folding trash hand after trash hand - it's part of the game. However, I find that online in comparson to B&M that there are an improportinate number of times where so many players have such good hands - hands that in many cases tie them to flop and as they get better and 'force' (I use that term lightly) players to stay in the pot.

Does this happen every hand? No. Why would it - it would be way to obvious and smarter players would soon pick up on the pattern. The thing is - as long as it doesn't occur to an individual player too often they won't really think too much about it. You can see something strange but if you weren't in the hand you just think, "Ouch! - glad I folded...".

There are more 'dramatic' flops in online rooms than anywhere I've ever played before in my life.

Of course, all this being said - I can't prove anything and really have intrest in wasting my time trying. Just keep in mind that these sites are run offshore with NO regulation or supervision by any gaming commission. They are free to do whatever they want. Sure, they can say some big 10 auditing firm came in and made sure there shuffle algorithim was legit - but who really knows what that means.

I'm 99.99% sure that after this current buy-in gets gobbled up on my next run of Group 1 hands being taken down by 2 outers I'm done playing online. I've been a winning poker player for some time. I've been a dedicated student of the game - reading or studying something poker related nearly every day for over the past year. I don't know what's going on online - perhaps it's just that I don't play very well there. I do tend to get distracted and don't have the patience to sit and stare at my computer for hours on end playing for $1 or $2 an hour against relatively good players fighting a tough rake. In the end, I guess my free time is better spent elsewhere. I'll save my poker time for when I actually get to 'sit down' and buy a rack and can bury myself in the game.

[Baulucky]

WOW. Feel better now?.

[ctv1116]

First of all, online is different in that you don't have to physically push your chips in the middle. This makes you more aware of the money you are putting at risk. I personally have a more difficult time putting in a $0.50 bet in my $5.00 buyin home game, then mindlessly raising $2 regularly in my online 1/2 6max game.

In terms of your bad beats, the increased frequency is likely to be due only to the increased number of hands you are playing online. Most tables play about 70 hands/hour, shorthnaded ones can play as many as 110/hour. Your typical casino game plays 25-30 hands/hour.

[cardcounter0]

All the answers are contained in your post:

"After some review, it's apparent there has been some bad play on my part - I certainly don't deny that."

"Of course, all this being said - I can't prove anything and really have intrest in wasting my time trying."

"I don't know what's going on online - perhaps it's just that I don't play very well there."

"I do tend to get distracted and don't have the patience to sit and stare at my computer for hours on end playing for $1 or $2 an hour against relatively good players fighting a tough rake."

Or as another poster here likes to say, "You suck at Poker"

Welcome to the board.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
reading or studying something poker related nearly every day for over the past year.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really did answer your own question.

Get back to us in five or ten more years.

Better luck to you, and welcome to the board.

[Syntax]

[ QUOTE ]
I find that online in comparson to B&M that there are an improportinate number of times where so many players have such good hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely untrue. Do yourself a favor and watch a couple WPT's on the travel channell or a couple episodes of the WSOP on ESPN. You will notice that majority of hands that they televise, especially the ones where someone gets knocked out, matchup incredibly strong hands such as AA vs KK. You'll notice runner runner 1 card flushes. Its all there, but at a much much slower pace then online.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, they can say some big 10 auditing firm came in and made sure there shuffle algorithim was legit - but who really knows what that means.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, its obvious that you don't know what it means. But if you were a smart guy, you would research it a bit, since you have invested some time and money playing poker online. Start here:

Price Waterhouse Coopers (http://www.pwcglobal.com/Extweb/aboutus.nsf/docid/2034A92EA1272C7085256DD4003DA139)

However, you are not alone in your skeptisim and fears. Maybe you just got a bad run of cards, or maybe you got a wake up call that youre not as good as you think you are.

There are a number of people that dont think online poker is straight. But, there are hundreds more players on this board that are winners, and wouldn't be unless the games were straight. Unless you just think that they are the luckiest people on the interenet, it would be in your best interest to stick around a while and learn a thing or two from some of them.

Eventually, if you have what it takes, you can be a winner too.

[Roy Munson]

Really.

[poker-penguin]

Online poker is a scam! We are all employees of Party Poker, who are in fact, a diabolical Indian organised crime syndicate who dislike you because you were cruel to a cow back in 1997.

People will deny it, but ALL online poker sites exist to rip YOU off personally. All of us here are in fact minions of the MAN - Doctor Sanjeev Evil.

*sigh* I'm sorry for this, at best mildly amusing, outburst, but if I had a dollar for every post here or to RGP (even excluding that maniac Russ) alleging that online poker is "rigged", "crooked", "bent", "dodgy", "biased towards action flops", and so on...

Well, I certainly wouldn't have to whore blackjack bonuses to repair my bankroll after getting my J7s cracked by lousy Aces.

Bottom line is that online poker's crooked nature is like the weapons of mass destruction. People tell us they are out there, and get all upset about it, but really, when it comes down to it, their evidence is sketchy at best.

[dogmeat]

Your post reminds me of the way I felt after losing my first buyin at Planet Poker four years ago. I deposited $200, won $400, then cashed out my original buy in. Then I proceeded to lose the $400, so I bought in again and won a little before losing it all. I was certain there was something strange going on and I didn't play online again for three years. Oops! If I had realized I was getting twice as many hands an hour and really needed to be focused, then I could have started winning way back then.

Being distracted can be a terrible thing at online poker since your decisions need to be made so quickly. I do much worse when my wife is sitting in the office with me talking, or my daughter is playing and singing behind me. Well, that should be expected. My win rate is much better when I am alone for a couple hours - and I like to play two or three games at a time so it really makes a difference. Well, sorry you are worried that something is going on, but it is not. You just have not adapted to online play. Slow down, play tighter, be more aggressive with your good hands, be more inclined to call on the river with a medium hand when somebody who has not been betting suddenly makes a bet - they are often on a desperation bet.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[tiltboy]

[ QUOTE ]
OK - let me just say first off that I'm no big believer in the 'consipiracy theory' that online gambling sites are out to cheat their players. Nor am I saying this just because I've taken one hellacious beating the last several days playing online - it's been atrocious and I won't go into details. After some review, it's apparent there has been some bad play on my part - I certainly don't deny that. But some of the stuff I've seen online has really got me thinking that if you decide to play online you truly are gambling - in every sense of the word.

Now, I've been a student of poker long enough to know that a bad run of cards is bound to catch up with you - and you'll never see it coming nor will you know how long it will last. I play poker voluntarly, and that I can accept. To be honest with you I wouldn't mind all that much sitting there folding trash hand after trash hand - it's part of the game. However, I find that online in comparson to B&M that there are an improportinate number of times where so many players have such good hands - hands that in many cases tie them to flop and as they get better and 'force' (I use that term lightly) players to stay in the pot.

Does this happen every hand? No. Why would it - it would be way to obvious and smarter players would soon pick up on the pattern. The thing is - as long as it doesn't occur to an individual player too often they won't really think too much about it. You can see something strange but if you weren't in the hand you just think, "Ouch! - glad I folded...".

There are more 'dramatic' flops in online rooms than anywhere I've ever played before in my life.

Of course, all this being said - I can't prove anything and really have intrest in wasting my time trying. Just keep in mind that these sites are run offshore with NO regulation or supervision by any gaming commission. They are free to do whatever they want. Sure, they can say some big 10 auditing firm came in and made sure there shuffle algorithim was legit - but who really knows what that means.

I'm 99.99% sure that after this current buy-in gets gobbled up on my next run of Group 1 hands being taken down by 2 outers I'm done playing online. I've been a winning poker player for some time. I've been a dedicated student of the game - reading or studying something poker related nearly every day for over the past year. I don't know what's going on online - perhaps it's just that I don't play very well there. I do tend to get distracted and don't have the patience to sit and stare at my computer for hours on end playing for $1 or $2 an hour against relatively good players fighting a tough rake. In the end, I guess my free time is better spent elsewhere. I'll save my poker time for when I actually get to 'sit down' and buy a rack and can bury myself in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post your PokerTracker stats. You know the ones.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

I swear to God I've seen this post before.

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
I swear to God I've seen this post before.

[/ QUOTE ]

[b]We Have a Winner! (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=208987&page=0& view=collapsed&sb=7&o=186&fpart=1)

Congrats to BreakEvenPlayer!

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
Online poker is a scam! We are all employees of Party Poker, who are in fact, a diabolical Indian organised crime syndicate who dislike you because you were cruel to a cow back in 1997.

People will deny it, but ALL online poker sites exist to rip YOU off personally. All of us here are in fact minions of the MAN - Doctor Sanjeev Evil.


[/ QUOTE ]
At least someone is honest about their involvement in this online poker scam.

[Caveman]

To point out the obvious of course online poker is not real. It is all run by a diabolical device that only understands ones and zeros. It communicates in bits, nibbles, and bytes only transmitting these things across the internet to your computer.

There is no dealer just a programmed random number generator that determines which cards are dealt. There are no cards, just file names that correspond to images you downloaded when you downloaded whatever poker program you are using. There is no table or chairs just more images the poker client uses to represent said items, and once again the poker client you downloaded put these images on your computer too.

Supposedly there are other players sitting at their computer seeing the same images as you are seeing, but can you really know if they exist or not. I suggest when you win to think of the other players as real people playing against you, but when you lose it is obvious that you are playing against bots that are sharing information and colluding against you.

The money used in the games is not real either, just another series of ones and zeroes. These online poker sites don't lower themselves to deal with real money it's filthy, they simply use electronic transfers of more ones and zeroes. When some people cash out without using the electronic transfer. The sites do not send real money instead they send a piece of paper which can be taken to a financial institution and be traded for real money. The paper is then transferred to a clearing center which causes the poker sites financial institution to send an electronic transfer of more ones and zeroes representing the money to the first financial institution in exchange for the piece of paper.

The really amazing thing is that you can combine all of these things together for an incredibly realistic simulation which mimics playing poker. Bankroll management, poker strategy and ability, even luck still apply. While online poker may not be physically real, the money you make or lose is very real, and in the end that’s what really matters./images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ResidentParanoid]

[ QUOTE ]
perhaps it's just that I don't play very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is most likely your main problem.

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
perhaps it's just that I don't play very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is most likely your main problem.

[/ QUOTE ]
You like insulting people, huh?

[donkeyradish]

I've been playing on-line poker for about 5 years, and sure it does happen that now and again I think "humm that hand was very fishy".

Still, now and then I will re-raise pre-flop with nothing just for effect and if I flop a straight with 8-4 once in a while of course it will look fishy

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
The money used in the games is not real either, just another series of ones and zeroes.

[/ QUOTE ]
This explains a lot. I've been wasting my time thinking it was real money.

[tyfromm]

[ QUOTE ]
I swear to God

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a winning poker strategy?

[Moyer]

Is your post count really important enough to waste everyone's time when they read this completely idiot thread?

[mack23]

For the people out there looking for "fishy", here's my best effort. I am the director of a series of home poker tourneys in WA state. We have one tourney per month, and each event usually takes 8-12 hrs to complete and has between 20-40 players. The average number of 4 of a kinds shown for the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT is.... 1. Maybe 2. Usually 1.

So.......................... I'm playing in a PP $10 SNG a while back and I flop quads TWICE, that is 2 TIMES, in the same tournament. Not on the river, or the turn, but on the flop both times. I don't care how fast the hands go online we are talking about less than 70 hands here within 1 hour and you play many more hands than 70 with many more players than 10 in a live tournament and I've never seen anything close to this. I heard once the odds of flopping quads is like 10000 to 1 or something ridiculous like that so what would the odds be of doing it twice in 70 hands? Probably one of those numbers that has letters in it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I know some of you will respond with "that's poker" or "show me your pokertracker stats" but honestly... I know you sometimes think as well as all of us that they pump up the cards to increase play and ensure rakes. But alas, we all play and likely will continue to! So I guess I'm a hypocrite... that makes me a "whore" and a "hypocrite" all because of online poker. Oh well nobody's perfect!

-Mack

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Is Online poker for real?

[/ QUOTE ]


No.
it is an optical illusion.

[poker-penguin]

I remember a little anecdote from when I was learning probability.

The unfinished hand from craps-lore. Basically, some guy made his point ?thirteen? times in a row. Now the odds on that are pretty incredible (roughly 2 to the power of 13). However, when you consider the number of craps games that have been played in the last 100 years, what would be incredible is if no one ever experienced these unlikely events.

Same with poker.

[WSOPWinner2005]

For christ sakes! If you guys haven't realized NEARLY EVERY one (meaning 99.9%) of his posts are copies of old posts to a T, I know why this is called the ZOO ! Animals /images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW, The one post that I think he may have actually written himself could of very well been a copy as well.. Just not a thread starting post. Oh yeah and his "ding, ding we have a winner post" LOL

[balt999]

[ QUOTE ]
There are more 'dramatic' flops in online rooms than anywhere I've ever played before in my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this has been said in the past, but regarding the "dramatic Flops", it's an illusion caused by the fact that you see more hands online than you do in an B & M enviornment. Also the action is a lot faster.

[WSOPWinner2005]

This is hilarious, Granny do you have a pic of someone beating a dead horse? It should be auto posted immediately after every thread he starts.