screw the bellagio

Game was a tight 30-60 game,almost all locals.In comes a tourist

who peels off 2000 from a huge wad and buys in.He posts in the 4th position,he raises when it gets to him,at the showdown he has

7,6 for a straight and wins a good pot.Over the next 2 rounds he

wins about 1500 showing everthing imaginable(Kx,Qx suited early

position and coldcalling preflop raises with the same kind of hands,also A any 8,5 suited you know the type of player).The

maniac lights a cigarette and of course he's told that isn't allowed,so he quits saying he's going back to craps,taking his 1500 with him.Who knows how much he would have lost in this game?

I don't smoke,but I think banning smoking in a poker room is

ridiculous,it's a poker room,not church.I never see any live

tourists whining like little girls about smoke,it's usually the

abrasive "professionals" who think they own the poker room.I say

as they say in the marine corps "light em if you got em".This

policy is keeping lots of live ones out of the poker room and in

the pits,and almost everyone I've heard whining about smoke no

poker players would care if they quit playing and never came

back.Listen up crybabies,toughen up!We don't live in a perfect

world,there are people at poker tables who are loud,annoying,

ugly,fat,have bad breath,and some who don't bathe and change their clothes regularly,let's ban all them too!

The bottom line is this policy is bad for poker,smoking and poker go together like baseball and hotdogs,peanutbutter and jelly,poolhalls and gambling,German troops and French soil,

etc.etc.And I haven't even mentioned the tells smokers have.

I think a solution that is fair to everyone would be to have

smoking and nonsmoking games.I know smoking is very politically

incorrect and we live in the most politically correct country

in the world,but there must be a way that anyone who wants to

play poker can play.Comments welcome

Joey,


As a smoker I agree that we should be able to smoke at the table. On the other hand I think that making the poker room a nonsmoking experience opens the door for more people to play, and play longer. Too much smoke in one area makes it tough for even me to stand to play for long periods of time. It sounds like your opinion might be a little jaded. Were some of this players wins bad beats for you?


My worthless opinion


"Rook"

Joey,


While you as an American have every right to smoke, that right ends when it jeapordizes or threatens to shorten the life of others. I think that is about the simplest explanation for it.


From a purely objective standpoint, the games that I have seen here in Chicago have not suffered in the least bit since the room went non-smoking. In fact, I believe they are probably a bit stronger possibly because people are able to play for longer periods of time.


I also get to Vegas between 3 and 5 times a year and have found the 30-60 game at Bellagio to be a very good game on most all of my trips. I did not notice a difference in the game at all after the room went non-smoking.


Too bad about the live one - hate to see them leave. Hopefully another was able to take his place soon after.


Just some thoughts...


Michael D. (Soccer/Ssucker Mike D.)

California's non-smoking results from a law about employee safety. Nevada non-smoking results from management's refinement of their product. Big difference. I've always been fascinated by how much legal reform starts in California, and this is an interesting case because the non-smoking reform moved east WITHOUT the accompaning legislation. That alone says this reform is indeed the popular choice, a case where government got it right, even if for a speculative reason.


In California, smokers AND non-smokers very much prefer the non-smoking law in the poker rooms. It's not even close. One of the most often repeated sentiments among SMOKERS is, "Can you even imagine the environment we used to play in? The dirt? The smell? Our clothes? Our lungs? Yuck!"


I moved to California two months before the non-smoking kicked in on January 1 1997. Players and employees were panicked, me included. Now most everyone is happy as can be about the non-smoking. And spoiled. My last trip to Vegas, before the Bellagio went non-smoking, I went there to play some mid-limit stud, a game I used to play a lot and looked forward to playing again, and I quit after half an hour because of the smoke, figuring, in all reality, that I quite possibly might never play poker in Nevada again. And here's the catch. I'm a smoker!


Tommy

I think the loose fish was going to leave anyway. He couldn't believe his luck (and prowess). If he didn't know how to play poker, he certainly knew when to leave.


I play in Washington where they will stop smoking when they pry the butt from their cold dead fingers. You want to play where the smoking fish feel comfortable? Any card room in this state would be glad to have you.

Mike D,


"Too bad about the live one - hate to see them leave."


I used to think like that too, but now I don't. After all, if they never win, chances are they won't come back next time, unless they're rich and/or they think they're winning players.


Soh

I know a lot of people who now play more because of the no-smoking rules we have here in CA. And I know a lot of smokers who like the rule too. I don't think it's chased away the live ones; if anything, the opposite is true.


Solution? Play on-line.

Joey- As you know, many "live ones" are nonsmokers, also. If you hang around anywhere long enough, you will get your share of "fish". Smoking has nothing to do with being a good or bad player. Nonsmoking Babe.

You have just done more whining in one post than I ever saw any non-smokers, professionals, or US Marines do.


Smoking isn't just politically incorrect, it stinks.


When I have to fart, I don't do it at the poker table. I remove myself to an area where dropping ass is acceptable. That doesn't make me politically correct, it just means I don't subject others to the smell of my ass.


Smokers are now required to do the same. It's not PC, it's just common sense.

Andy,


You wrote: "I know a lot of people who now play more because of the no-smoking rules we have here in CA."


Of course you know people who play more because of non-smoking rules. You more often SEE the people who play and like or accept the rule. The people who play less or not at all because they don't like it have fallen off your radar.


"And I know a lot of smokers who like the rule too."


I've heard some smokers who say this too. But I also have talked to some who are playing less, and when they play they are walking more. We both may be missing the ones who are not playing in California at all.


"I don't think it's chased away the live ones; if anything, the opposite is true."


Of course not all smokers are live ones but most would agree there is a correlation between smoking and the type of "gambling" we like to see in our opponents. We have lost at least some of those smokers, and the ones that remain are often walking every hour or so which keeps the tables short.


I think the good economy of the last few years has kept the games live. Factor that out and I believe that the games would be a lot worse. But I can't prove it.


Regards,


Rick

I quote from my copy of John Fox's Play Poker, Quit Work and Sleep Till Noon:


"Do play against chain smokers. Considering the state of medical knowledge of this day [1978] a chain smoker is obviously either stupid or compulsive. Both of these qualities are good to have in an opponent."

Not to mention that your farts, at least so far as medical science has thus far deterinee, don't damage the health of others ingesting second-hand fart.

You may be right joey. Roy Cooke would certainly agree with you. He thinks the non-smoking has hurt business at the Bellagio. So does Nate, a part time floor person and full time dealer. I am a non-smoker myself but it seems to me that the games after June 1 when they instituted the non-smoking policy were better than now.

I meant to say the games BEFORE June 1 were better than they are now.

Jim,


I'm playing devil's advocate here. Note that I'm in a special category. I don't smoke but enjoy being around smokers when gambling because I need the money to pay for health care ;-).


I think it will cut down on the gambling but doesn't it always get slow in the summer in Las Vegas? In other words, you and the Belagio employees may be right but it is hard to measure when other factors are involved and hard to filter out.


Regards,


Rick


PS I post this out of a perverse compulsion to be fair. I'm virtually certain that the studies regarding health hazards associated with second hand smoke do not factor out other lifestyle components (e.g., being married to a smoker is an indicator of low income - low income reduces lifespan for all sorts of reasons).

But doesn't farting contribute to global warming or is that just cow farts?


Regards,


Rick

Rick,


Start factoring out the good economy now and you're still late...but my games are still great.


good luck


Mike

That's the definition of a fish, Soh. Someone who has a lot of money and thinks they are a good player. Those guys will be back win or lose, and of course the "blind pig" theory tells you they will win once in a while.


Miss you guys at Hollywood, should be there last week in Oct to give you some of my Iowa money.


As for Mr. Unhappy, political correctness depends upon who is enforcing the orthodoxy. In China, if you are not politically correct, you end up underneath a tank. So PC is in the eye of the beholder.


Lawyer Bruce

Didn't Nick the Greek espouse farting as a way of putting your opponents on tilt?

If he did, it apparently didn't work as he went from playing for millions of dollars against Johnny Moss to playing $5-10 draw in Gardena. Supposedly when he was asked how he could play in that game, he replied "It's action, isn't it?" Supposedly he also said the next best thing to gambling and winning is gambling and losing. Evidently, for him, it was.

Bruce,


I'd have to look it up but it sounds like it may have been Andy, err John Fox in "Play Poker, Quit Work Sleep till Noon".


Regards,


Rick

That is correct. The airline situation has hurt as well.

"I don't smoke but enjoy being around smokers when gambling because I need the money to pay for health care ;-)"


Just to be the devil's devil's advocate, isn't it possible you wouldn't have to pay as much for health care if you weren't around smokers?


Although you probably made the remark this way on purpose, I couldn't help needling you anyway. /images/wink.gif