10-20 hand

I can't decide if I liked how I played this hand or not, I'd be interested in hearing what this forum thinks. 10-20 game. 9 players, moderately tight and not particularly aggressive.


UTG+1 limps, a middle position (MP) player limps, I limp two off the button with JTs, cutoff button and SB all fold, BB calls. Four players $45 pot.


Flop comes QJT of diamonds, BB and UTG+1 check, MP bets. I raise with my bottom two pair (comments?). Both others fold, MP calls. I've played with MP for about a half an hour, he has only played one other hand and didn't show it down. Two players, $85 pot.


Turn is 6 of spades, MP checks, I bet he calls. Two players, $125 pot.


River is the Jack of hearts. MP bets.


I'll post the results and how I played the river later in the day. . .

It looks a lot like MP has KJ (maybe with Kd, but that doesn't matter at this point), so I would go for the raise on the end. With only 4 likely holdings (3*QJ 1*89d) that can beat you and a flush/pair on board, there are an awful lot of hands he can bet that you will beat. If he reraises, I would just call as there are very few hands (only TT really) he can 3 bet that you will beat if he is as tight as his play thus far indicates. Against a loose aggressive type, I would be willing to put in another raise if he reraised me.

Whether to make a value-raise on the end is one of the toughest decisions to pull off.


I think you have to just call here, for fear of QJ, which he very well might have played this way in his position. The problem with a raise in your situation is that if he does have you beat, it's going to cost you three bets as opposed to one (you'd have to make a crying call if he 3-bet). So you lose two bets when you're wrong, and only gain one SOME of the time when you're better.


Your hand looks great, but you have to ask yourself what hands he would call a raise with. He couldn't call with AJ, KJ, a queen, etc. with that board. Since he came alive on the river, you can't put him on a straight or flush. He could have been on a weak steal attempt, if he put you on KdQ or similar. But then he's still not going to pay off your raise. So you kind of have to hope he has TT.


My guess is that he might have JT also. But if he has QJ, don't make it worse for yourself. I like the way you played the hand, especially the flop-raise, which is crucial for shutting out all kinds of draws from the other 2 players.

I guess I'll take a stab at the question you really asked, which is about your flop and turn play /images/smile.gif.


I like the raise on the flop, which should get rid of any weak singleton diamonds and any bare 9's or K's.


I would consider checking the turn, as there are a lot of hands MP could check raise me with, not all of which beat me. I'm not that fond of putting myself in a spot where I might have to make a tough laydown, when I might be able to improve for free. There are 23 scare cards for you (9 diamonds, an A K Q 9 or 6), but it seems both unlikely MP will fold for your bet on the turn and that your equity on his call is very small (possibly negative, since he can call with a better hand) given the number of outs he might have when you are in the lead (he has 21 outs if he holds KdQx). You may induce a river bluff when you check, so if you do check the turn you obviously have to call the river a lot unless you have a good read on this player.

I will guess that he had the KJclubs, and that you raised on the river. Anyway, I think I might have waited until the turn to raise here if a blank came off. This is a tricky hand to play as there are a lot of ways you could be beat (assuming these guys are playing okay or close to it you might be against QJs, KJs, A9d or A8d, QTs, 89s maybe a few others and now you beat all but the QJ or 89diamonds) You should be in good shape when you aren't checkraised on the turn and now you are probably still good on the river.

I like the flop and the turn bets. On the flop you don't want to give anyone with a diamond a free draw. That bet would be a no brainer for me. The turn did not help MP so you have to bet that too.


I think you should raise MP on the river, and if he 3 bets just call him down, in case he has a better boat. You've been playing with MP for a half hour, so your information is limited. He could have been limping with Ace/Low of diamonds, and had the intention of check-raising the flop. When it became heads up he slowed down and figured he'd call to the river, check raise and get paid off.


From the fact that you posted this I'm guessing he had QQ or QJ, but that's why they call it gambling.

I just realized MP bet the flop. I'd still play it the same way, but he obviously wasn't check raising as I'd suggested.

I would raise. The only things that beat you are pocket queens and queen-jack. With pocket queens he would have raised preflop. There are only 3 ways he can have queen-jack given what you have and what is on the table. I think it is far more likely that he has a worse hand like a flush that he was fooling around with, or a lower full house, or just trip jacks.

Rest of hand was played fine. Here's the river:


If the J hit him, here are his hands:


JT - 2 ways

QJ - 3 ways

QQ - 0 ways - preflop raise.

TT - 1 way

JA - 1 way - need Ad

JK - 1 way - need Kd


We can rule out the straight flush, because he probably raises the turn. We can probably rule out a regular flush, because that's too strange of a way to play it - it is possible, though.


He may have a straight and be using the protected board pair - but if he is that sophisticated, he won't call your raise.


So, you beat a TT, tie a JT (he won't fold), and lose to a QJ.

JA and JK are highly questionable - why would he bet these hands when it is likely you have a completed hand?

SO it's seems it's either 3-1 or even money you are beat. Sounds like you only have a call, esp. since trip jacks may not call a raise.


If your opponent stinks and/or is a calling station, go ahead and raise.


Good luck.


Dan Z.

I like your point about why the player can't have a straight. If he's good enough to bet the river when a scare cards hits to try and get me to lay down a flush, he's probably the kind of player that lays down to a raise on the flop. After he bet the river, I thought that there was a possibility he had 98 with one diamond for bottom straight and a straight flush draw and then was bluffing the river, but it wouldn't matter anyway since if he's good enough to make that play he probably won't call a river raise.

He may not be betting a straight or small flush on the river to get you to lay down. He may be betting these hands because you may call with more hands than you will bet if checked to in this spot. You might have played AQ, KQ or QT the way you did, but would not bet them on the end. He may be hoping you call out of suspicion on the river.


He loses money by betting, but loses more with check and call if you will call with these hands but not bet them.

See HPFAP and TOP for discussion. I do not think he has any designs on stealing the pot from a straight or flush - this makes little sense.


In any case, if he is sophisticated enough to make these plays, it is unlikely you can get him to call your raise.


There's no reason for him to doubt your raise means a big hand, and there's no reason for you to think (from his play) that the jack didn't make him a full house. Both of these factors make it less likely he calls a river raise with 3 jacks/straight/ small flush.


Good luck.


Dan Z.

you should raise on the river. only hand you really have to worry about is QJ. there are alot of hands that he can have that you beat. AJ,KJ,J9,flush,straight. raise and take the money!

I raised the river, MP reraises and I call. MP shows QJ for the higher boat.


Thanks for all the responses.

Unless you are playing Omaha, you raise, imho. Very few players will lay down trips/ace, trips/king here (they will make the same crying call you make if you get reraised). And if he is tight, he may not have played QJo, giving him only one way to have it. The difference in EV is probably negligible, but I don't like what just calling does to your image at the table. If you do end up winning the hand (and show a full house against a bluff or trips with only a call), you will seem very passive. When people think you're passive, they play at you constantly, while if people think you are a little crazy, they think twice before betting into you. I understand that sometimes you just know you are beat, and then a call is fine, but I'd like to disagree with most of the posters and say raise here 90% of the time.

I think your moves were fine. I would just call on the river -- he obviously sees what you see. I would be very concerned about QJ. You may tie but I doubt you have him beat based on your cursory description.